Site Problems 10/06/2007

[UKJAY]

I write a post and when I click the button to post it, half of it has vanished...
it only posts first line of text




when I click edit, it doesn't come back and then what I rewrite goes too.

[Sage]

I posted a comment and it just didnt appear at all, but that might be due to my phone

[UKJAY]

it works for me now...maybe I was on some Spam list?

[Messiah]

it works for me now...maybe I was on some Spam list?

You talk a lot, so maybe the system thinks you're spamming >:)

[UKJAY]

Very True :D

[Curry]

Test.

Test.

Test.

Just to see if multiple lines works :P

^^^ well that appears to work....? Are you talking about the frontpage or the forum?

Half a post disappearing would seem to be really strange...

I posted a comment and it just didnt appear at all, but that might be due to my phone
Posting from phones may very well be a problem: they work via proxies which are often abused for spamming purposes, so it's not unlikely that they are blacklisted.... which causes the behaviour you describe, that it just doesn't do shit and the comment doesn't appear.

[UKJAY]

Yeah sometimes it works, sometimes it don't - only started today. It is odd, but I have my video phone to the ready should it happen again

[Curry]

Please be more specific, I need stuff like 'I was watching page {url} and then I pressed {button X} with input {Y} and I was expecting {A} but then I got {B}", so I can try to reproduce it or find it in logs :P

Thnx for helping btw :)

[UKJAY]

Please be more specific, I need stuff like 'I was watching page {url} and then I pressed {button X} with input {Y} and I was expecting {A} but then I got {B}", so I can try to reproduce it or find it in logs :P

Thnx for helping btw :)

OK it first happened in ShadowRun thread and was this post (http://forum.xboxic.com/showpost.php?p=45264&postcount=172) I was writing a reply to Ross which was 4 or 5 lines worth and posted quick reply. All it originally showed was the first line of text which read: [/quote Rossko Uk ... and nothing I had written. So I wrote it again and a message appeared full screen page, stating duplicate post (or something similar) and that it was taking me back to original post. So page reloaded back on my original posting.


I pressed edit and rewrote my message and then pressed save, still it wasn't posting more than 1 line - so I edited it to what is shown now on 1 line only.

[Curry]

Since it's apparently all fixed now I'm tempted to say caching was giving some problems... had something comparable on the frontpage right after upgrades that gave me a few headaches.

[360NORML]

HA! When I saw the thread title I thought to myself, wow you guys sure are prepared if your already planning on having problems on here in Oct. 8)7

[UKJAY]

:D yeah we do dates differently here in the UK... Day Month Year

[Rival24]

:D yeah we do dates differently here in the UK... Day Month Year

That's the way it should be! Now all you need to do is get rid of that retarded imperial system.. miles, pounds, foot, feet, thumbs whatever... :(

[Nino]

Exactly. Dates should come before months, since months come before years. Start with the figure that changes most frequently (days), then the one after that (months) and then years.

[Rival24]

All we need to do now is convince a couple of hundred million people :)

[nofear360]

Euro date system FTW!\o/

[UKJAY]

erm foot feet, pounds & ounces lol.. that system went years ago. We're Centimetres, Millimetres, Kilograms, grams, we're metric

[Rossko_UK]

Imperial rules. None of this metric bollocks that we have to learn in school. Me and some mates made a point of quoting everything in imperial measurements during maths just to piss off the teacher, and boy did it work.

Sigh, they were the days :(

erm foot feet, pounds & ounces lol.. that system went years ago. We're Centimetres, Millimetres, Kilograms, grams, we're metric

Well that's not entirely true. Yes products on shelves are now metric, but go to a good 'ol cheese counter or whatever and it's all imperial. Football measurements are still referred to in feet rather than metres (despite TV things trying to convice us otherwise).

Imperial still plays a huge roll over here.

[360NORML]

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."
:D

I knew an exchange student back in college that was quite ticked off that he couldn't buy any alcohol until he turned 21. So, when he got his drivers license he "accidently" forgot to put the month before the day on his application.

[Rival24]

All you fuckers need now is the Euro :P

[Curry]

How convenient :DI knew an exchange student back in college that was quite ticked off that he couldn't buy any alcohol until he turned 21. So, when he got his drivers license he "accidently" forgot to put the month before the day on his application.

Humm I just had the same problem :X

[UKJAY]

I have one euro coin ... maybe pass it off as a £2 coin get it into circulation... :)

[Curry]

The problem seems to be isolated in the rich text editor... if you have problems please switch to the regular editor with the topright button: http://forum.xboxic.com/images/editor/switchmode.gif

Meanwhile I'm trying to solve the problem, but at least knowing it's the rich editor helps :P

[UKJAY]

thanks, and for spotting it

[Curry]

Since no reports have been heard on this for a week I'll consider the forum posting problem fixed :)

I've also fixed problems I think with frontpage comments not always appearing right away, which was caused by the anti-spam measures and our caching not cooperating perfectly.

[UKJAY]

Since no reports have been heard on this for a week I'll consider the forum posting problem fixed :)

I've also fixed problems I think with frontpage comments not always appearing right away, which was caused by the anti-spam measures and our caching not cooperating perfectly.

No problems whatsoever...noticed you took away the different versions of text editor so it's no big deal anyway...all working fine.

[Curry]

Yeah I did a bunch of testing, and it appeared that it only occurred in the rich text editor. So I disabled it :+

[_Chris_]

I never had any problems using the rich text editor...

[Rossko_UK]

I never knew it existed!

[UKJAY]

I never had any problems using the rich text editor...

It's the rich text editor that was making my post's vanish that I mentioned last week...

[_Chris_]

Yeah i remember you saying, i just mean i never had any problems myself:)

[TRIGGER M4N]

I don't know of this is spyware or whatever, but on the front page, when reading comments, it automatically scrolls right upto te Orange ad on the left. Starting to piss me off a little.

[Curry]

The Orange ad is poof.

[TRIGGER M4N]

Excellent. I've also got another problem. I have a widescreen 19" monitor, and on the front page, theres a whole blank column, to the right of the ad. The forums are normal, but the front page isn't. Other sites work normal.?!

[Curry]

Uh can you take a screenie of that?

Feel free to email it to me directly or PM if you don't want it on the forums.

[TRIGGER M4N]

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h179/TRIGGER_M4N/xbxicmainpage-1.jpg

Forums working.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h179/TRIGGER_M4N/xbxicforum.jpg
Here's showing another website showing normally.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h179/TRIGGER_M4N/gameplay.jpg

[UKJAY]

My laptop has a widescreen screen which also has the big white gap, but if it didn't have the gap then the list of news items (before you click to see all the comments) would only look one line of text instead of 4 or 5...

[TRIGGER M4N]

Yeah, I should say it's a widescreen monitor.

[UKJAY]

http://www.jason-andrews.co.uk/screen1.jpg

I made my screen image capture the same size as Trigger's 800 x 500, I also have a widescreen and using IE, if you ignore the Windows Sidebar, I don't have as much white space, but I'm using display settings of 1280 x 800

[Curry]

Uh the frontpage was never designed to have a fluid layout for many reasons, most boiling down to usability. Take a look around on text-based sites, and you'll find they rarely stretch beyond 1000 pixels width. That 'gap' has simply been there since the site design launched in April 2006, and a logical consequence of "stop that fucking habit of maximixing browser windows, 1024x768 is way big enough for them even on my 1920x1200 screen".

Reason a) 40% of internet users still have a 1024x768 or smaller screen
Reason b) It's very hard to read text containing more than about 70 characters per line, which equals about 500 pixels for most fonts. Beyond that it becomes progressively harder to find the beginning of the new line intuitively. For this reason newspapers and magazines also use relatively small columns traditionally.

To prove my point I just took an authentic screenshot of CNN.com (www.cnn.com) at my laptop's native 1920x1200 resolution:

http://files.xboxic.com/crew/curry/cnn-at-1920.jpg

[UKJAY]

:D

I didn't have a problem...I'm aware it would make the pages wider spreading out the text which makes the content page smaller...to be honest Im not really sure why I was posting screenshots...I wanted to compare sizes with trigg :)...

[Curry]

;)

Why are you guys using screen grabbers anyway btw. Ever heard of that great PrtScr button on your keyboard which grabs the whole desktop and puts it on your clipboard for use in Paint, Photoshop or whatever? If you just want to capture the active window (like I did above) use Alt-PrtScr.

[UKJAY]

;)

Why are you guys using screen grabbers anyway btw. Ever heard of that great PrtScr button on your keyboard which grabs the whole desktop and puts it on your clipboard for use in Paint, Photoshop or whatever? If you just want to capture the active window (like I did above) use Alt-PrtScr.

You know I've been using PC computers and the Internet since 1999 and I (seriously) did not know you could do that...
I've seen the button, but just associated it with my printer.

[Curry]

Here's some additional reading on the line length/column tradeoff thingy: click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_%28typography%29#Typographic_style).

You know I've been using PC computers and the Internet since 1999 and I (seriously) did not know you could do that...
I've seen the button, but just associated it with my printer.
It's worked like that since the first incarnations of Windows, and afaik also on MacOS and most common Linux desktops :)

[TRIGGER M4N]

http://files.xboxic.com/crew/curry/cnn-at-1920.jpg

I'm not the one wasting it by putting a huge blank space there... Anyway, I was only asking.

[Curry]

I'm not the one wasting it by putting a huge blank space there... Anyway, I was only asking.
Trig :*

btw Trig I see you're still using IE6... you really want to upgrade to IE7, or even better a real web browser like Firefox.

[TRIGGER M4N]

Certain thing are stopping me upgrading.

[UKJAY]

Certain thing are stopping me upgrading.

LOL...3 guesses what...windows verification

[Curry]

WGA doesn't stop the Firefox installer? :+

[_Chris_]

WGA doesn't stop the Firefox installer? :+
True, thats one of the reasons i use firefox over any IE upgrades:P

[TRIGGER M4N]

WGA doesn't stop the Firefox installer? :+

Going to Firefox would be downgrading.

[Curry]

LIES.

[UKJAY]

I don't get how it matters...web pages still display the same content in either... I use a browser to view a website

[Cage]

Going to Firefox would be downgrading.

QFT!! _o_

[HylianHitman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy#Subjects_of_obsession

3rd bullet point :)

Go Firefox, you're our browser! \o/

[mass9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy#Subjects_of_obsession



hahaha
King of the Hill is a fanboy of propane.:P

[Rival24]

Haha, that's pretty cool :D

[HylianHitman]

I saw it in some post where Curry posted the rules. I looked at the rules and it had a link to the Fanboy wiki :D

Funny how Zelda and Final Fantasy has its own fanboys.

[Rival24]

I saw it in some post where Curry posted the rules. I looked at the rules and it had a link to the Fanboy wiki :D

Funny how Zelda and Final Fantasy has its own fanboys.

Nino and I met some of these Zelda 'people' at last year's Games Convention. They're a bunch of freaky nerds, and they use the words Zelda and Link at least once in every sentence. "Link, I need to take a Zelda shit!"

[Curry]

I don't get how it matters...web pages still display the same content in either...
That's because us webdevelopers spend on average 40% of a site's development time on making it display properly in Microsoft's piece of shit they call a browser :*

[UKJAY]

That's because us webdevelopers spend on average 40% of a site's development time on making it display properly in Microsoft's piece of shit they call a browser :*


...and the other 60% changing everything back n forth time and time and time again because the client wants to move a picture to the left...(or something)

[Curry]

Lol yeah that sounds familiar :P

[Nino]

All internet explorer users should die. I'm halfway through my final assessments at school and I wasted a good 5 hours of my valuable assessment time thanks to those fuckers.

[TRIGGER M4N]

Now you've said that, I am sticking to IE forever.

[nofear360]

OWNED! :D

[_Chris_]

Now you've said that, I am sticking to IE forever.
Such a rebel:P

[Cage]

IE FTW!

I mean, why bother with installing a third party browser when a good one is provided with your original install of Windows..
Back in the day, like 1996 or wathever, IE sucked. Netscape had a far superior product and I used it because IE wasn't showing sites as they should or sometimes not at all. Today it's all cosmetics and image. Name me 1 site that works in FF and not in IE.. impossible, although this was true back in the day with netscape and IE. There were a lot of sites that didn't work or showed fucked up layouts beyond believe..

To me the FF followers are just that, followers. In my eyes it's an 'elite program'. Something to brag about. "Hey, I use FF. It's way better then IE. All the cool guys use it and it's free to boot". No offence, but give me a break. As if I payed for IE. It came with the same software you use to run FF on and it does exactly the same thing. And don't give me that crap about 'sticking it to the man'. :r It's like buying a new car with michelin tires and then removing them to use your goodyear ones because they are 'better'.. the both 'roll' on all roads..

Let's take average joe. He buys a 'puter and wants to go on the internet. The manual says "double click the big E on the screen and voila". Why bother downloading another program which does the same? Joe doesn't care and so don't do 80% of all users..

The same goes for linux. The ones who use it allways say how great it is and how easy and everyone should try it. Well, I did and it was a pain in the arse to work with (this coming from a systems administrator). All those command line things and all the compiling before installing. If even I am having a hard time with it, what would average joe be thinking when using it.. I like the install wizard. Keeps it easy and simple. I can still tweak it afterwards.

So, there's my rant and ofcourse it's just my opinion. Nothing personal :) It's all opinion and if yours is different and you like FF, no biggie. To each his own.. Just don't force me to think it's your way or no way..
[/rant]

PS: I'm pissed off at the moment because my 360 is dead and needed to blow off some steam...

[mass9]

IE FTW!
It's like buying a new car with michelin tires and then removing them to use your goodyear ones because they are 'better'.. the both 'roll' on all roads..


what about Bridgestone tires?:P

[Chris]

PS: I'm pissed off at the moment because my 360 is dead and needed to blow off some steam...

You know if you had FF, your Xbox 360 wouldn't have died.

[Curry]

I'm not a Firefox fanboy or anything :)

I think the best comparison would be to consider me, as a professional webdeveloper, the cancer expert surgeon telling everyone to stop smoking. He sees the terrible consequences of smoking on a daily basis, and he knows smoking itself isn't going to change anywhere soon to become healthier. So he does what he feels is best: recommend people to stop smoking.

Same goes for me: if the world would finally grow a brain and all simultaneously switch to a real browser, I'd lose 40% of my work thanks to sites just working like they should in every browser as long as I stick to W3C standards. From a logical financial perspective, the surgeon would want everyone to continue smoking, and I would want IE to continue having a large market share.

It's a strange world.

and I'm a smoker myself for the record :+

[Nino]

IE FTW!

I mean, why bother with installing a third party browser when a good one is provided with your original install of Windows..
Because that built in one lacks functionality, isn't up to W3C standards and is about 3 years behind Firefox when it comes to features.

Back in the day, like 1996 or wathever, IE sucked.
11 years later and nothing's changed.

Today it's all cosmetics and image.
Nope.

Name me 1 site that works in FF and not in IE.. impossible,
You're on one. Maybe Curry can make a screenshot of Xboxic without all the hacks necessary to make it work on IE? You'll be surprised. It's still not a 100% IE proof btw. And just to give you a general idea of how much effort it takes to make good websites work on shitty browsers; click here (http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&q=websites+not+working+in+internet+explorer&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=)).

To me the FF followers are just that, followers. In my eyes it's an 'elite program'. Something to brag about. "Hey, I use FF. It's way better then IE. All the cool guys use it and it's free to boot".
My girlfriend uses FF (I didn't tell her to), my dad uses FF, my teachers use FF. Just because you're the idiot that doesn't know how to use it doesn't make the rest use it for the reasons you mentioned.

No offence, but give me a break. As if I payed for IE.
You did.

it does exactly the same thing.
If only that were true.

And don't give me that crap about 'sticking it to the man'. :r
You're on an Xbox site, wtf are you talking about...

It's like buying a new car with michelin tires and then removing them to use your goodyear ones because they are 'better'.. the both 'roll' on all roads..
That's like saying a Ferrari and a Lada are the same because 'they both drive'.


Let's take average joe. He buys a 'puter and wants to go on the internet. The manual says "double click the big E on the screen and voila". Why bother downloading another program which does the same? Joe doesn't care and so don't do 80% of all users..
Average Joe doesn't play Forza 2 either, does that make it a bad game?

The same goes for linux. The ones who use it allways say how great it is and how easy and everyone should try it. Well, I did and it was a pain in the arse to work with (this coming from a systems administrator). All those command line things and all the compiling before installing. If even I am having a hard time with it, what would average joe be thinking when using it.. I like the install wizard. Keeps it easy and simple. I can still tweak it afterwards.
Who's talking about Linux? Oh and LOL @ you can't getting Linux to work as a 'systems administrator', get a new job.

So, there's my rant and ofcourse it's just my opinion. Nothing personal :)
Nothing personal, all retarded.

It's all opinion and if yours is different and you like FF, no biggie. To each his own.. Just don't force me to think it's your way or no way..
Don't force me to spend hours and hours make my website incompatible with your crappy browser then.

[Cage]

:D looks like you took this personally.. It wasn't.. just a silly rant by me in a very bad mood.. but let me clarify a few things..

Because that built in one lacks functionality, isn't up to W3C standards and is about 3 years behind Firefox when it comes to features.
I never noticed any missing functionality and I don't need features. I use my browser to browse the net, not for spell checking, downloading youtube, getting rss feeds and whatever plugin there may be.


You're on one. Maybe Curry can make a screenshot of Xboxic without all the hacks necessary to make it work on IE? You'll be surprised. It's still not a 100% IE proof btw. And just to give you a general idea of how much effort it takes to make good websites work on shitty browsers; click here (http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&q=websites+not+working+in+internet+explorer&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=)).

This site works perfectly in IE. I've seen it in FF and there was no difference. Just because the site needed tweaking doesn't mean IE sucks, It only means that it wasn't designed for IE. If it weren't for the adjustments, the site would miss out on a big public. It's only a small group which uses FF in comparison to IE.


My girlfriend uses FF (I didn't tell her to), my dad uses FF, my teachers use FF. Just because you're the idiot that doesn't know how to use it doesn't make the rest use it for the reasons you mentioned.

I never called anyone names because they used other software then me. Why are you so offended by me saying I use IE?? And I know how to use FF btw. I choose not to because, to me, there is no added value. Just another icon on the desktop which i wouldn't use.


You did.

Nope, I didn't pay for IE. It came with windows which I payed for. Just like 90% of the FF users that run Windows..


That's like saying a Ferrari and a Lada are the same because 'they both drive'.

No, that's like saying a Ferrari and a Lamboughini are the same because they both drive. Your comparisson is more like IE version 1 against the latest FF.


Average Joe doesn't play Forza 2 either, does that make it a bad game?

I never said FF is bad. Only said I don't get the fuzz about it and I don't like it. And what does Forza have to do with it? I don't get your comparisson here. sorry..


Who's talking about Linux? Oh and LOL @ you can't getting Linux to work as a 'systems administrator', get a new job.

ehm.. I did get it to work, but installing it and other stuff was a pain in the arse. I was saying that someone without the 'know how' wouldn't get it to run, contrary to windows which is 'plug and play'. Just so you know; more then 80% (if not 90%) of all offices work on a windows platform. Some use thin clients and citrix, but that also runs on windows. Yes, unix is present at most companies, but just as firewalls or for billing systems and such. (atleast in my expirience).


Don't force me to spend hours and hours make my website incompatible with your crappy browser then.
Noone is forcing anyone, but as curry said, there is a lot of money to loose when you only stick to FF regarding developement. and why would you spend hours to make a website incompatible with IE?

All in all, difference of opinion.. And that's a good thing, cause else the world would be a boring place :)

[nofear360]

Jay and Chris ... I think you could do a comic on this back and forth argument :D.

[_Chris_]

Wow... Looks like i missed all the fun:P
Curry, New forum logo;)http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w100/chris2988/logo.jpg

[Nino]

:D looks like you took this personally.. It wasn't.. just a silly rant by me in a very bad mood.. but let me clarify a few things..
Nah I was just telling you what's wrong about your way of thinking

I never noticed any missing functionality and I don't need features. I use my browser to browse the net, not for spell checking, downloading youtube, getting rss feeds and whatever plugin there may be.
That's like saying 'I don't want a comfortable seat in my car because I use it for driving'. I can tell you don't use spell checking, you should.

This site works perfectly in IE. I've seen it in FF and there was no difference.
There isn't because we have a ton of hacks and other restrictions we use to make it display ok in IE. Firefox doesnt have a problem with a screenshot wider than 484px in a newspost but IE goes mental when you do it.

[qupote] Just because the site needed tweaking doesn't mean IE sucks, It only means that it wasn't designed for IE.[/quote]
That's where you're wrong. If IE could interpret the W3C standards like it's supposed to it wouldn't require any tweaking. So yeah, the fact that it needs tweaking means IE sucks. It's not even arguable, it's a fact.

I never called anyone names because they used other software then me. Why are you so offended by me saying I use IE??
Because IE users are idiots.

Nope, I didn't pay for IE. It came with windows which I payed for. Just like 90% of the FF users that run Windows..
You paid for the OS and all the applications it ships with. IE requires development, development costs money, that money comes from the people who buy IE, IE is not available if you don't have Windows (Mac IE is no longer supported), hence; you pay for IE. No ifs and buts.

Your comparisson is more like IE version 1 against the latest FF.
I can't help it that Microsoft finally caught up with the other browsers and introduced tabs a couple of years too late. IE is still a Lada under the hood.

I never said FF is bad. Only said I don't get the fuzz about it and I don't like it. And what does Forza have to do with it? I don't get your comparisson here. sorry..
It's not that hard. Just because the Average Joe doesn't use a product doesn't mean it's a big problem

ehm.. I did get it to work, but installing it and other stuff was a pain in the arse.
N00b.

I was saying that someone without the 'know how' wouldn't get it to run, contrary to windows which is 'plug and play'. Just so you know; more then 80% (if not 90%) of all offices work on a windows platform. Some use thin clients and citrix, but that also runs on windows. Yes, unix is present at most companies, but just as firewalls or for billing systems and such. (atleast in my expirience).
I know this, why are you telling me this? Why did you even bring up Linux in the first place?


Noone is forcing anyone, but as curry said, there is a lot of money to loose when you only stick to FF regarding developement.
Losing money= = forcing.

and why would you spend hours to make a website incompatible with IE?
Because IE using idiots start bitching when their shitty browser doesn't interpret sites right.

All in all, difference of opinion.. And that's a good thing, cause else the world would be a boring place :)
No it's a matter of people using inferior products and causing me a lot of trouble. A world where everyone would use FireFox would be a better place, not a boring place.

[UKJAY]

Why dont we all have both browser and call it quits.
I have always used Firefox for years and years until I got windows Vista and now Im using IE7. I just prefer the look of it over Firefox 2 and not what it does.

[nofear360]

Because IE users are idiots.
Watch it bitch! :P

[HylianHitman]

My brother uses IE, while I use FireFox.

He aims to be different so he stands out or some shit.

[Nino]

Why dont we all have both browser and call it quits.
I have always used Firefox for years and years until I got windows Vista and now Im using IE7. I just prefer the look of it over Firefox 2 and not what it does.

http://www.popxpop.com/archives/2006/11/29/friends-dont-let-friends-use-ie.jpg

[Cage]

..snap.. firefox sales rep post.. snap..
We can go on like this for hours :) but in the end I'll still use IE because I like it. Even if you call me an idiot.. I couldn't care less to be honest :z

And let me quote Jay with the quote of the day :

Why dont we all have both browser and call it quits.
I have always used Firefox for years and years until I got windows Vista and now Im using IE7. I just prefer the look of it over Firefox 2 and not what it does.

_o_

[TRIGGER M4N]

Firefox is a SLOWER browser than IE, that it self should put anyone off even wispering the name Firefox.

[Rival24]

Firefox is a SLOWER browser than IE, that it self should put anyone off even wispering the name Firefox.
Upgrade your 386.

[Cage]

http://www.freewebs.com/macssuck/spreadinternetexplorer.htm
I rest my case :+

[Nino]

http://www.freewebs.com/macssuck/spreadinternetexplorer.htm
I rest my case :+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_explorer#Security

I rest mine. Wikipedia (citing the Washington Post) > some Windows fanboy blog on freewebs.com.

And let me quote Jay with the most retarded quote of the ever :
'fashion over function'
_o_

If that's really how you think then I feel sorry for you and I honestly mean that.

Oh and your REALLY need to upgrade your computer if the footprint for Firefox is noticeably slower than IE's, any decent machine since 2000 or something should be fast enough to make the difference null.

[Curry]

Firefox is a SLOWER browser than IE, that it self should put anyone off even wispering the name Firefox.
Uhm hooooo.... the fact that IE can start up faster by recycling the shdocvw.dll which is resident in memory permanently because it is abused to render folder views as well is not an advantage. During operation neither is notably faster of slower than the other.

As for why IE6 sucks, click here (http://cenio.com/templates/cenio/styles/ie6hacks.css). Or why IE7 sucks, click here (http://cenio.com/templates/cenio/styles/ie7hacks.css). Yes, IE6 and IE7 need to have certain elements set to 0.01% or 1% of their normal height to make sure they don't disappear without reason. How's that for quality products :P

Does all this matter to end-users? Rarely, except that the web would advance and modernize at a much much higher speed if IE usage would finally drop below 50% and MS would be forced to get IE8 into compliance with standard that are a mere 6 years old. We could be having rich web applications everywhere instead of flat boring sites if getting them to work in IE was *feasible*. I'm not talking about the 40% extra development sites, many projects simply never are done, or are downgraded severely, just because they have to work on Microsoft's joke of a browser monopoly. And hey, let's not ignore the several million virus infections per year and subsequent multi-billion corporate losses following Microsoft's joke of a browser security model.

Consumer ignorance does not make a product good. See VHS. See PlayStation. See Internet Explorer.

[UKJAY]

This has just turned fucking retarded...it's only a browser, if we were all forced to use Firefox, it's like being institutionalised !!

[TRIGGER M4N]

Yeah!
Wahhh wahhh, I spent 5 hours researching IE. Deal with it, or shut it!

[HylianHitman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox#Critical_reception

We aren't forcing you to use FF, we're simply coaxing you to do so.

[Chris]

http://www.freewebs.com/macssuck/spreadinternetexplorer.htm
I rest my case :+
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/3321/yeafm2.png
....maybe if they had a choice when they purchased Windows?

[enemyeight]

Could you help me ? i want to write a post and upload an interesting video ,how could i do that .i have tried some ways ,but failed. thank qou for your valuble

[UKJAY]

Could you help me ? i want to write a post and upload an interesting video ,how could i do that .i have tried some ways ,but failed. thank qou for your valuble

What the fuck is wrong with you

[nofear360]

Could you help me ? i want to write a post and upload an interesting video ,how could i do that .i have tried some ways ,but failed. thank qou for your valuble
Bye! (AGAIN)