Official XNA Programming Thread

[Rossko_UK]

Some of you have been delving into the wonderful world of programming and in particular, XNA, so post all about it in here from now on. Feel free to share your ideas, discuss what you do and don't like, and ask for help if need be.

I attempted it for all of three minutes, realised I'd never do it and gave up :)

[Thryon]

I am currently reading a book on it, and another on C#, while studying Java. I will post info here as afton as I can.

[JasonA]

I am currently giving it a go and have gone so far as to make a scroller (cos it seems the easiest) I will post a pic once I've fine tuned it a little in Torque X plus it needs further coding to deploy to the 360 once you've opened it in Torque X... all I can give is a quick screen shot of a small gamerpic and description on an early version on the 360...

http://www.jason-andrews.co.uk/xboxic/xboxicans.jpg

[Voyager2k]

It's a neat idea and a very generous effort by M$. But it also is very much pointless because it's a very restriced managed code environment and as such not really accepted by the huge open source developer community. The only ones really using XNA to mess around are M$ fanboys and some ppl who work with visual c# on a daily basis. So what you have on that platform is fanboys and DotNet programmers. Not really the crowd to expect much in terms of game development from, isn't it ? :)

I've played a bit with it myself but dropped it rather quickly again because the current version is far from what it should be to make sense. XNA 2.0 sounds a bit more promising. At least they have (again, too restricted) network support for multiplayer.

But god forbid allowing ANYTHING that would even remotely allow some good ppl to build a decent engine that can actually run more than a few, simple shaders and polygons or worse ... allow for the development of ... *GASP* mediacenter like applications :)

That's not saying Sony would do any better in this area of course. PS3 Linux without any hardware support (mainly RSX access) is just as pointless but at least it's a platform accepted by open source developers.

[Thryon]

It's a neat idea and a very generous effort by M$. But it also is very much pointless because it's a very restriced managed code environment and as such not really accepted by the huge open source developer community. The only ones really using XNA to mess around are M$ fanboys and some ppl who work with visual c# on a daily basis. So what you have on that platform is fanboys and DotNet programmers. Not really the crowd to expect much in terms of game development from, isn't it ? :)

I've played a bit with it myself but dropped it rather quickly again because the current version is far from what it should be to make sense. XNA 2.0 sounds a bit more promising. At least they have (again, too restricted) network support for multiplayer.

But god forbid allowing ANYTHING that would even remotely allow some good ppl to build a decent engine that can actually run more than a few, simple shaders and polygons or worse ... allow for the development of ... *GASP* mediacenter like applications :)

That's not saying Sony would do any better in this area of course. PS3 Linux without any hardware support (mainly RSX access) is just as pointless but at least it's a platform accepted by open source developers.

First, a disclaimer, the following rant is not aimed at anyone in particular, and mostly not at you Voyager2K. I am just using your quote as a starting point.

The problem is that if MS allows people to develop anything, how long before they will produce hacks and such that will bypass the built in protection of the console and allow the playing of pirated Xbox 360 or other console games.

Microsoft actualy made an investment in the 360 and do need to make some money off the venture. I noticed you (and others) love writing M$ with the $ sign, but tell me one commercial company out there that is not trying to make $. I will even leave a blank spot to enter the name _________ (it need not be a large space, for it will remain blank). I know 20 or so people that own Xbox 1s, and not one of them buys games, as they all have mod chips and download games. How does that help Microsoft make $$$.

I love it each time someone speaks of "open source" and "homebrew" in reference to consoles. As an avid gamer, who has spent his life wanting to develop games, I have been following the homebrew scene since the days of the Vic20 (back then you purchased books of game code and spent months typing that code in yourself to play). I noticed that in all my years of following the homebrew scene, there was a very disturbing trend that emerged, very little actual homebrew games were ever produced. Once a system had been comprised, the open source community raved how this was be great for their cause, but I have never seen any more than a handfull of real homebrew games if any. Each time the only thing that was released was emulators and other applications built to play copywrited material. There is a difference between homebrew developers and hackers.

As for the XNA not being adequate enough. Have you seen what some people have done with a few simple shaders and polygons? There is an old saying that a poor capenter will always blame his tools. It is not about what tools you are provied, but how you use em. Head over to the comic thread and see what I and others can do with just MSPAINT. Microsoft has provided all the tools needed for us to make games and all for FREE. It's up to us to learn how to use these tools to their maximum potential.

[YoinkIRL]

Agreed Thyron.

[JasonA]

yup XNA works with DirectX too for better results again and you should see the winners of the dreambuildplay contest....

[wakeboardnmoto]

i just wish XNA did not cost an additional 99$ a year to play :(

[Thryon]

i just wish XNA did not cost an additional 99$ a year to play :(

Agree.

If the homebrew scene actualy grows, and there will be real sharing of games between this homebrew scene, then I do not mind paying. It is a small cost. I actually remember paying several hundred $$$ for VB 5. At least the tools are free.

[YoinkIRL]

XNA is free, whatcha talkin about you silly Xbox 360er ;P

Seriously though, I use XNA on my PC but how is it on the 360?

[Voyager2k]

@Thyron

Of course they are in in to make money. Not like M$ is a charity or welfare organisation after all. You've been around gaming and computers for as long as I have (since you do remember typing in Commodore Basic programs) and have seen Microsoft "grow and prosper" (or steal and sell other peoples ideas, just matter of looking at it from diffrent angles really). Microsoft is extremely good at "making money". Especially way to good at manipulating and exploiting huge demographics to their advantage. They wouldn't need to take things as far as they do but they chose to do so anyway and, for example, come up with marketing strategies that knowingly would sell their products to unknowing, uneducated customers who have zero use for those products.

Yes, from a business point of view that is genius. From a moral point of view it's a display of disgusting greed and that is just one example of many. Hence my preference of using M$.

Now back to XNA ...... you seem to be confusing some things here. I spoke about the open source community which you seem to believe is equal to pirates, hackers and folks who crack a console to run warez on it. Maybe you should educate yourself on that topic a bit before making any further statements because you are insulting a lot of incredibly talented and successfull programmers with such broad statements.

They can keep their security all they want. Sony can too after all. They do have a very sophisticated hypervisor ("the" security chip in both consoles) that enforces whatever policies you want enforced.

There is no reason to force ppl into a managed code environment that is as restricted as XNA currently is. On top of that it's FAR from free. Most ppl will want to use it for the 360 (even tho they can't really do anything with it, see above reference about M$ marketing strategies and greed) and will have to pay $99/year for the Creators Club, which serves absolutely no purpose for 90% of their "customers" (I almost prefer the term "victim" here). The tools you'll want cost money too. Torque-X is as free as a limited demo could be and their 3D Engine (whatever that one was called) is far from free.

What XNA really is is just another marketing strategy to make money out of the platform. If they really wanted to support independent developers they could do much better than performing such a media stunt with XNA. They could simply sell their dev kits with restricted licences for example. If they really wanted ppl to do homebrew games they could release the 360 SDK under the same terms and conditions as they release the Visual Studio trials or all those other SDK's they have. They still maintain full control over the platform and could take things from there. But that wouldn't be a managed platform and ppl could actually do really good stuff with it.

Yes, as you pointed out Microsoft is in this to make money and that is exactly the purpose of XNA .... making money and enabling a couple of new revenue roads. It's not free and it never will be. You watch where that is going over the next 2 years :) I've made some predictions about the future of the platform and XNA fits perfectly into the bigger picture that comes with it.

With that beeing said, it still is a very generous offer since it does allow you to peek into the world of making games (briefly). But as I said, it is pretty much pointless in it's current state due to it's strict limitations and the managed code environment and mainly targeted at 360 fanboys to sell $99 subscriptions without providing any real service. It's much like the XBL subscription (which you also need for XNA Creators Club btw) which comes down to selling your own bandwidth to you. That I call genius :)

And for the record, even tho it may appear that I dislike Microsoft .... I really don't. I don't care about them either way. I admire their financial success and I despise their methods. I find their attitude disgusting to say the least. It's a company with no moral limitations and I see them for what they are. They're not alone of course but they are the center of discussion here :)

[Jamzy No 2]

i would love to get into something like this or take an amuture course on game devolping but i just dont have the money (or the skill, probely) they should release a version [even if its limted] of this for free so that younger/inexpirenced audiences (im 16) can learn how to make simple things and the advanced of those can go onto to buy the full version.

besides the best your going to make with XNA is only ever going to be good enough for XBLA so its not like this system is that great anyway

[TRIGGER M4N]

I was learning C# in school earlier this year before I left. It's really feckin hard to do unless you're really dedicated.

[Jamzy No 2]

http://www.jason-andrews.co.uk/xboxic/xboxicans.jpg

cool can yo make little Jamzy Nayse Trigger Man Uk Jay and Thyron Charcters

I was learning C# in school earlier this year before I left. It's really feckin hard to do unless you're really dedicated.

yeah theres nothing like that at my school but id love to have a try at it if there ran a 1/2 year course, but they don't

[nofear360]

/.../ And for the record, even tho it may appear that I dislike Microsoft .... I really don't. I don't care about them either way. I admire their financial success and I despise their methods. I find their attitude disgusting to say the least. It's a company with no moral limitations and I see them for what they are. They're not alone of course but they are the center of discussion here :)
That was a great read :).

[TRIGGER M4N]

If any resemblance of me, my name, my pictures and/or any similarities of me in ANY form of medium, I will have 12% royalties on all items sold.

[YoinkIRL]

WOW LOL

I just wrote like a bunch of shit debating you voyager but Xboxic like timed me out or something and I lost all of it.

But the overview was : XNA is fucking amazing, if you can't create good games it's because you suck. Honestly, as someone who knows a variety of languages and has used a variety of tools and has created my own server emulation for Ultima online involving a 50,000 line code core... XNA is very good as a tool. It's a closed system and was never marketed as anything different, and XNA is one of the best, if not best, tool for a system this closed. Also, Microsoft is one of the cleaner companies out there... Apple and Sony are a joke when it comes to marketing to unsuspecting people. "It just works" my ass, "4D GRAPHICS ZOMG" my ass.

[JasonA]

If any resemblance of me, my name, my pictures and/or any similarities of me in ANY form of medium, I will have 12% royalties on all items sold.

:D I can just about put something on the screen. I've made scrolling backgrounds, but my character seems to be able to walk on water, walk in mid air...im reading up how to make it follow a set path.

[Thryon]

I do have a simple request. Can we end the debate if XNA is any good, and just accept that it is here, and some of us want to learn it, and this thread is only for those that have an interest in learning XNA (hmmm since the title indicated official XNA thread, maybe we need to open an Official XNA Programming Thread).

[_Chris_]

http://www.jason-andrews.co.uk/xboxic/xboxicans.jpg

cool can yo make little Jamzy Nayse Trigger Man Uk Jay and Thyron Charcters



Jay is already there, Jay is the one in blue and i am the one in green. Catch up, Check the full comics thread:)

[TRIGGER M4N]

Is Endorphin compatible with XNA?

[Thryon]

Well Endorphin runs in Maya, and Maya models can be used in XNA, so I would have to answer yes.

[Rossko_UK]

I do have a simple request. Can we end the debate if XNA is any good, and just accept that it is here, and some of us want to learn it, and this thread is only for those that have an interest in learning XNA (hmmm since the title indicated official XNA thread, maybe we need to open an Official XNA Programming Thread).

Listen to this please guys, he speaks a lot of truth :)

(Topic changed)

[Thryon]

Ok everyone. So far, I have not joined the XNA Creators Club, as I am still learning, and months away from finishing any game that I will want to port to my Xbox 360, or to share with anyone else. But I still wanted to know what I was getting for my $99 a year fee. Well here is the scoop.

Since you already can get the XNA and Visual Studios for free, they will not count.

As of July 02, 2007, Creators Club members can get Torque X and Torque X Builder for free. The Torque X Builder alone is listed on Garagegames site for a free of $100 USD. Membership fees already paid in full with that savings. But you do get more stuff....

Club Members have access to samples games not available to others. These are comparable to XBLA games, and most original content is about 800 MS Points, or $10 value. But these games allow you study the programing logic and modify them if you wish. There is currently only two games, a racing game and a Descent type game called simply Ship Game.

The fee also promises to much more material as time passes, but it is good to know that you at least get your money's worth with extra tools.

[JasonA]

Torque X Builder is amazing !!! Plus you can scout the net for downloadable XNA games which you can deploy to your console through XNA with one click. With Torque X its complicated because you need to create a new project first using a build kit supplied, then rebuild it, then open it in Torque X - but it doesn't makes it an instant 360 game, it make it a windows version.
XNA has 360 build kits and start a new 360 project, but torque X doesn't make use of that - once you've built your game in Torque you need to work out what needs modifying to get the code through the XNA.

http://www.xnapost.com/xna_games.html

Headbanger & Rapoda are fucking great

[Jamzy No 2]

Jay is already there, Jay is the one in blue and i am the one in green. Catch up, Check the full comics thread:)

actually ive read the comic thread since posting this so that was my mistake.
but the comics are relly good.

also jay when u putting up that vid u mentioned on youtube

[JasonA]

actually ive read the comic thread since posting this so that was my mistake.
but the comics are relly good.

also jay when u putting up that vid u mentioned on youtube

More than likely tomorrow night. Im spending tomorrow daytime tuning it up a little and need to find something which can record whats on your pc screen or I'll just use a webcam to record it straight to youtube...

liking your avatar !!

[JasonA]

XNA Launcher on my console crashed during a deployment of a game called Rapoda and now my console isn't working properly. The screen keeps freezing on games and I can't get any other XNA games across to it...

What has it done!!!

[Chris]

...that isn't good.

[JasonA]

...that isn't good.

I managed to delete the whole XNA Launcer thing which removed all XNA content and started again...

Rapoda may be buggy or someone invented an xbox virus...although I did find an XNA SNES & GAMEBOY emulator

[JasonA]

The best racing game ever...wish it was on XBLA...

http://www.xnaracinggame.com/

Developed with just XNA & makes mad tracks look like lego!

[Thryon]

That is super cool. I thought they where supposed to include it with XNA membership.

I just noticed that you can download it for XNA at the following link at creators.XNA.com

[JasonA]

I think theres new cars you can make and tracks coming soon