PS3 OS hogs 19% more system power than 360?

[Aift]

PS3Portal.com has posted an article called "Inside the PS3" that takes a look at how the competing consoles utilize resources while running the OS in the background of games:

...Everything that one wants to do involving software on a Game Console, specifically while the user is playing games, comes at a cost. In the case of the Xbox360, this cost is approximately 2% of total CPU time and 6.25% of the Xbox360's total available RAM. Balancing these out, one could argue that MS has removed a total of 4% of the Xbox360's total available system power in order to provide these features and more which were not mentioned.

...In the case of the PS3 this equates to 25% of the available Cores on the CPU and 18.75% of the available RAM in the system. Balancing these out, one could argue that Sony has removed a total of 23% of the available system power in the PS3 for these features

Of course, this is all based on anonymous sources. The author even admits he doesn't quite know what he's talking about. But then, we are Xbox fanboys and this could be blood in the bathtub. Is MS simply better at coding than Sony (as some PS3 fans seem to fear), or is Kutaragi's time-bending 4D OS simply doing more, i.e. multi-video chat? Does hogging nearly a quarter of system resources mean the PS3's bells and whistles are coming at the expense of its games?

[Thanks Joe]

Source - www.xbox360fanboy.com


Quote:
PS3 portal has some juicy information that has come to them by way of some anonymous, yet informative sources. You know what that means: it must be true! be cautious about what you read. Even they go as far to say that all this could change before the end. But either way, the information sounds pretty insightful.

At any rate, these guys have some in-depth facts about the upcoming next-gen console. The details start out like any good diagnosis would: with a comparison! Giving you a rundown of the Xbox 360 system sets the reader up for what to expect when talking about the PS3. Some of the information regarding the behind-the-scenes processing is laid out below:

- 32MB of the 256MB of available GDDR3 memory off the RSX chip
- 64MB of the 256MB of available XDR memory off the Cell CPU
- 1 SPE of 7 constantly reserved
- 1 SPE of 7 able to be "taken" by the OS at a moments notice (games have to give it up if requested)

This is about 23% of the total system power for the PS3, which is a far cry from the 4% set aside for the Xbox 360's OS. Of course we still don't know what kind of applications Sony has in mind for this nearly-quarter allotment, or if that's even going to be the final specification! Even so, we'd like to believe they have a lot in store for gamers when it comes to the operating system's functionality.

[Thanks, Joe]

Source - www.ps3fanboy.com

[ONI 23]

Well that sure does open the door for alot of good speculation. Interesting stats, Thanks for the info Aift!

[trj156]

haha, both got the same info but twisted it around to make their respective console sound better.

[TRIGGER M4N]

I Don't believe Sony and there huge HYPE campaign.

[Curry]

haha, both got the same info but twisted it around to make their respective console sound better.
Both are from Joystiq too ;)

I read the article on 360FB too but didn't bother posting it on Xboxic because I think the PS3P source is bullshitting them.

[E2K]

Well it still is total BS if you ask me.

I did some time ago 3d mark 2001 on my pc.
A friend said it would run better on win98SE, instead of WinXP.
So i installed both, clean.
In XP of my 512 MB ram, there was around 120 filled with 'windows'
on the 98SE it was more like 40.

You all expect the 98SE to outperform the XP, but it was the other way around, 100 point more on the XP... at 12000, so it didnt even matter anyway.

When you start a game the OS gets 'minimized', so i dont think that the PS3 will be 40% slower than xbox, because the OS uses more Memory.

Also, they don't say where they get the info from.

[ARCHA1C]

It's hardly an issue... reaching a console's theoretical maximum takes years, and even that "maximum" isnt necessrily maxing the cpu out, it's just a balance of all the aspects of a game, combined with the in-console engine's ability. Even if the PS3's OS is using up that much processor, it will likely never be infringing on the PS3's ability to render gameplay elements. And you have to remember that in the PS3 there is going to be a free "core" sitting dormant on the cpu from the get-go.... Bottom line.... GAMES... Screw the technical mumbo jumbo.......

[Nino]

Bottom line.... GAMES... Screw the technical mumbo jumbo.......

Amen!

[Rival24]

We talk about Xbox 360 hardware all the time :P

[Curry]

Bottom line.... GAMES... Screw the technical mumbo jumbo.......
90% agree. I spoke with people @ MS today and they were asking me about how I'd think the PS3 was going to match up. The MS guys are most definitely keeping track of where the PS3 is going to end up compared to what they've put on the market. But their idea is comparable to my technie one: GPU comparable in strength, CPU potentiallty much stronger but realistically comparable.

[E2K]

90% agree. I spoke with people @ MS today and they were asking me about how I'd think the PS3 was going to match up. The MS guys are most definitely keeping track of where the PS3 is going to end up compared to what they've put on the market. But their idea is comparable to my technie one: GPU comparable in strength, CPU potentiallty much stronger but realistically comparable.

I do not want to be rude, but it's not that weird if the PS3 is more powerfull.
On paper it has faster everything.
This is a fact.

Also that the dev time makes better games, true a bit, but not that much. See also: the xbox1. Doa ultimate is nice graphics, but Doa3 also, and more like the same.
Maybe this means that the developer has great skill at programming.

People say that Gt4 was better graphically and faster than Forza on the xbox.
But on paper, the xbox is better.
Still. Gt4 looks a lot like Gt3, and that game came out in japan on march 2001 or something, within one year of the console.

So, I think, for example xbox360 racegames will look like PGR3, but they will develop into smoother framerate, better Ai, faster loading, etc.
The graphic processor shader performace and stuff doesn't really get optimized that much, if you look at other previous games.

back ontopic:
it not fair to compare based on personal preference.

Wait untill E3, which is in 3 weeks or so. Then you can compare the playable demo's to the demo's of the xbox360 and then you can compare again.

I wish i could say that i'm back to steel battalion, but it's not at my home, but at my room (in the town i study in) :D

[Curry]

I do not want to be rude, but it's not that weird if the PS3 is more powerfull.
On paper it has faster everything.
This is a fact.
If it's a fact I can demand proof of you. Which you don't have ;) The GPU is theoretically slightly inferior to the 360's, the CPU is potentially much more powerful but not in a way that can easily be used for games. In reality it will have a lot of power but will not outrun the 360 by double figures or anything if its true potential is ever tapped.
Also that the dev time makes better games, true a bit, but not that much. See also: the xbox1. Doa ultimate is nice graphics, but Doa3 also, and more like the same.
DOA is a bad example ofcourse on Xbox 1. Compare Halo 1 and Half-Life 2 mmkay?
People say that Gt4 was better graphically and faster than Forza on the xbox.
But on paper, the xbox is better.
Comparing 2 completely unrelated games (apart from the fact that they're both racers) is no use in this whole story. Actually any game comparison is no use in this whole story. On paper, GPU's are nearly equal and Cell has more potential power but less raw power than 360 CPU. That's all we can say about it right now, and hands-on testing will have to do the rest.

[E2K]

If it's a fact I can demand proof of you. Which you don't have ;) The GPU is theoretically slightly inferior to the 360's, the CPU is potentially much more powerful but not in a way that can easily be used for games. In reality it will have a lot of power but will not outrun the 360 by double figures or anything if its true potential is ever tapped.

DOA is a bad example ofcourse on Xbox 1. Compare Halo 1 and Half-Life 2 mmkay?

Comparing 2 completely unrelated games (apart from the fact that they're both racers) is no use in this whole story. Actually any game comparison is no use in this whole story. On paper, GPU's are nearly equal and Cell has more potential power but less raw power than 360 CPU. That's all we can say about it right now, and hands-on testing will have to do the rest.

Thanks for in the end repeating what i said.

I am too old to argue about what is better on paper, because I think you believe that the xbox360 really is more powerfull. I cannot change that.
Also all your arguments are based on opinions or fabricated truth, see also you emotion engine-toy story statements.

What I meant by the race games is this:
The Xbox might be faster, but this doesn't mean the games will be, like forza vs GT4.

This translates as:

The PS3 might be faster, but this doesn't mean the games will be.

So higher specs doesn't make a better game. But it can. I mean ICO is not that technical, but I don't think that on a N64 you could have the same (graphical) atmosphere. So there you go.

[Curry]

Thanks for in the end repeating what i said.
Not really, you said "On paper it has faster everything. This is a fact." It's not a fact, not even close. On paper the specs are simply comparable to the 360, with the Cell potentially much faster or much slower (!!!) than the triple-core 360 CPU. There are no facts supporting the claim that it "has faster everything". The facts that we know, being publicly known hardware specs, suggest a similarly powered console with large potential in the CPU department that may or may not go untapped.
I am too old to argue about what is better on paper, because I think you believe that the xbox360 really is more powerfull. I cannot change that.
I cannot remember saying that the 360 is more powerful. Neither have I said the PS3 will be more powerful. I have not even said they will be comparable in strength. I have just said the currently known info suggests they will be comparable in raw power.
Also all your arguments are based on opinions or fabricated truth, see also you emotion engine-toy story statements.
Apart from the fact that I have not made any statements like that in this topic they would've been quite welcome as proof that Sony has a good reputation for overhyping their own equipment while not showing it to everyone, only to end up with hardware unable to fulfill expectations but still selling on the hype.
So higher specs doesn't make a better game. But it can. I mean ICO is not that technical, but I don't think that on a N64 you could have the same (graphical) atmosphere. So there you go.
Now that's facts indeed :)

[E2K]

I cannot remember saying that the 360 is more powerful. ...



The GPU is theoretically slightly inferior to the 360's, the CPU is potentially much more powerful but not in a way that can easily be used for games.

If this were not a forum where i could be banned, i'd say you're full of shit ;)

[Rival24]

If this were not a forum where i could be banned, i'd say you're full of shit ;)
He said GPU, not the entire system :)

[E2K]

weird, looks like my post got removed.
It was something like this:

He said GPU, not the entire system :)


the CPU is potentially much more powerful but not in a way that can easily be used for games.

Yeah Rival24, you are right, he forgot the RAM :+

When the xbox was about to bomb, to be released i mean :) there were forums where kids stated to be developers, claiming that the ps2 would be more powerful, the processor would be lower clocked, but more and more powerful, the graphics faster than xbox, etc etc.

"History is never repeated" it once showed on a trailer i think, but maybe they were wrong :)

[VEXED FEAR]

"When the xbox was about to bomb, to be released i mean :)"

"History is never repeated" it once showed on a trailer i think, but maybe they were wrong :)"

My dad could beat up your dad, my mom can scratch your mom's eyes out and my dog can tear your dog apart....do you get my point now? Obviously you're a PS3 fanboy and we all know it, it's pretty obvious with some of the statements you say. But for the love of God, stop with the "My system can power on faster than yours can" crap. We understand that the PS3 will be a next gen console, we don't deny it, so there's no reason to smash on the 360 to prove that, or that the 360 is indeed NOT next gen. Unlike you, there are some of us here who note the good and bad points of both systems, none of us deny the other system it's power but WE DO NOT state "facts" that this system or that system is more powerful on paper in EVERY aspect. I really don't see that! I've seen unbiased reviews on both consoles from people who actually know what they're talking about and they point out the bad and good of both consoles. Then there's also this going on.... 1) You're playing the numbers game. Just because this console is 7 inches taller and weighs 10 pounds more, doesn't mean it has any advantage. You have to look at what those numbers represent. 2) There are some system components in both consoles that are extremely powerful but get bottlenecked because another hardware component can't transfer that data quick enough for example. So, that power also comes to a waste. 3) You have to look at the systems overall, how each hardware component works with the other and not just "Hey, my GPU is 10 times better so I'm awesome and the console wars are over!". Plus didn't Sony have the INFERIOR PS2 console to the Xbox, still being the number one console out there because of the FACT, that they do have a bigger game library? It all depends on how each party plays their cards. Personaly, I think Microsoft has too much damn money to spend to actually lose, look at that balloon fight for example. They've been doing a lot of crazy and extroadinary things, how can people ignore your presence when it's so clear like that?

As far as history goes....we battled fanboys back in 2001, and we continue to battle them in 2006!

PS: Take just a basic course in some sort of computer class *sigh* 8)7

[TRIGGER M4N]

Though this is a Xbox site, and it is indeed a interesting read and a lot of things have been said. Wasn't this thread asking for someone, like E2K to surf the net, look for Xbox sites, then cause mayhem?

The bottom line is: No one EXACTLY knows what is going on or going to happen, and like Curry said, MS are watching Sony, and they no doubt have plans, so lets keep all the fanboyism to a low.

[VEXED FEAR]

Hey, if Microsoft is watching Sony then I'm sure Sony is watching Microsoft. This only means good things for us, the consumer. The more these two companies duke it out, the more killer app games, pepripherals and hardware you'll see. Competition only means better and better games.

I would like to add something about the PS3 having "this much" power but not being able to use it at this pointt. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but it sounds like some hardware wasn't checked.

[E2K]

I would like to add something about the PS3 having "this much" power but not being able to use it at this pointt. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but it sounds like some hardware wasn't checked.

Here is my point.
You make it sound like i am the fanboy.

When the ps3 be out, and there was ps3ic.com, I'd also object when i saw bullshit posted regarding the xbox.

I never opened a topic here where I said that the xbox fanboy community fabricated the "sony says ps2 will have better graphics than toy story".
I only responded to something curry said.

Same with this.

You state something, as you can see quoted above here.
Where is this based on?
i think other bullshit fanboys said.
You ignore the reality. And make it sound like some hardware was badly designed, and the power cannot be used etc.
Then again, who says this?

Konami?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3562159273652058866&q=ps3+realtime&pl=true

Sony (the getaway)?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=547571033895794714&q=ps3+getaway&pl=true


Or do you believe some xbox site where they speak to "true developers", or even "microsoft"?

I hope you get my point now.

I do not like the character art of mgs4, nor the games they showed in the second footage, but I cannot deny the graphical power that is on display.

So then again, who should we believe? Real developers who show us realtime footage, or this:


the PS3 having "this much" power but not being able to use it at this pointt. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but it sounds like some hardware wasn't checked



I understand that this site says 'xboxic', but it doesnt say anywhere 'fanboy'.

So concentrate on the xbox, and don't make fanboyed statements towards other consoles.
Unless they are true, and contain actual information.

[Curry]

I don't see too much fanboyism in this thread, in fact we even have a firm rule (http://wiki.xboxic.com/Xboxic:Rules) against fanboyism ;)

What I see in this thread is that Sony's hype machine is already working nicely. Like I said to a few people this weekend, Sony can take a tin box, fill it with horse shit and market it for $600, and millions of people will buy it because it says "Playstation 3" on the top. They're not, they're building a good console. One which has, all facts analyzed that are available and that I can analyze with 20+ years programming experience and having been an administrator myself on a huge PC hardware site for several years, similar
specs to the Xbox 360 and potentially much more capacity in the CPU department which will quite probably go untapped most of the time.

[E2K]

Interresting point.

As I can tell from you point of view, millions* of people buy xbox360, not because of hype. But because of games right? Oh, plus the xbox live.

On the other hand, gamers do not want to play Metal Gear Solid 4, or a next generation Final Fantasy.
They get a console because of a hype machine.
That is what you mean?


offtopic:
I did not want the xbox.
Am i a fanboy because i only could afford 1 console at a time, and for example did not feel like trading in the ability to play Tekken, Soul Calibur3 and Virtua Fighter 4 to play Dead or Alive? before you quote check the 'for example' part.

Recently I wanted to play Steel Battalion, so I bought what i needed to play it. If the xbox was still 480 euro, i'd think twice.


* no actual sale numbers have been released

[VEXED FEAR]

I would like to add something about the PS3 having "this much" power but not being able to use it at this pointt. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but it sounds like some hardware wasn't checked.

Here is my point.
You make it sound like i am the fanboy.

When the ps3 be out, and there was ps3ic.com, I'd also object when i saw bullshit posted regarding the xbox.

I never opened a topic here where I said that the xbox fanboy community fabricated the "sony says ps2 will have better graphics than toy story".
I only responded to something curry said.

Same with this.

You state something, as you can see quoted above here.
Where is this based on?
i think other bullshit fanboys said.
You ignore the reality. And make it sound like some hardware was badly designed, and the power cannot be used etc.
Then again, who says this?

Konami?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3562159273652058866&q=ps3+realtime&pl=true

Sony (the getaway)?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=547571033895794714&q=ps3+getaway&pl=true


Or do you believe some xbox site where they speak to "true developers", or even "microsoft"?

I hope you get my point now.

I do not like the character art of mgs4, nor the games they showed in the second footage, but I cannot deny the graphical power that is on display.

So then again, who should we believe? Real developers who show us realtime footage, or this:





I understand that this site says 'xboxic', but it doesnt say anywhere 'fanboy'.

So concentrate on the xbox, and don't make fanboyed statements towards other consoles.
Unless they are true, and contain actual information.

You just mentioned you were a fanboy so don't make sound like I'm trying to make you look like a monster, it's not an evil word you use to condem someone to the depths of hell lol. Anyways, you explained your reason for picking Playstation over Xbox and that's fine. To be honest with you, I picked up one console and that was the Xbox. Before that I had the Playstation. I thought the Xbox was so great at first but no one thought it would have a game shortage. I mean, look at it, both Nintendo and Sony have a great library of games, and many of their games are cross platform, so why would Xbox have this problem, wouldn't they be able to get the same games? Unfortunately it wasn't so and after the first little while of having my Xbox, I though "Hey, this is pretty shit!". I had a big stack of Playstation games and if I had goten a PS2, I could have been playing them right now. I was just a little disappointed with the Xbox a bit down the road but it picked up a bit later on. I think where they got me is with Xbox Live. Sure, Playstation has a network you can play on for free but I don't know, Xbox Live is so nicely put together I don't mind paying for it, it's incredible. And for me, I believe that's where the future of the console lies and the future of gaming lies....online gaming.

I think where Curry was going with you comparing GT4 to PGR3 is that they're completely different games, designed for completely different things. And if you take into consideration that Xbox has a large online gaming network while Sony doesn't have one that is that big, maybe you'll understand what I'm saying. And I don't know about next gen, but let's be honestwith the current gen here....almost every game that came out at the SAME TIME for both platforms looked better on the Xbox. I will agree that ports from the PS2 to the Xbox didn't go so well though, but these are games that have been milked so much on their original console, that I doubt the developers are going to build another game of THE SAME game for something like that Xbox. Check out Metal Gear for the Xbox for an example of that. It was a beautiful game, but sometimes the framerate wasn't doing it, and we know the Xbox had more power under it's hood that made it more than capable of doing the job.

A lot of the games you purchased when some of you first picked up the 360 didn't run so smoothly online at first, right? Right! Do you know why though? You're trying to pump major graphics and major resolutions through the same broadband ethernet cable you were using for your original Xbox. I think back in the day a lot of the battle was to be fought with the hardware, but today I think a large portion of that fight will be brought to the table with the developers. One of the challenges the developers have to go through is not only making those games look good, but getting them to run smooth, especially if they're going to be online games. Many new ways of using graphics will be explored this gen, I'm sure of it since developers are going to be fighting to have those cutting edge graphics without pumping massive data sizes through ethernet cable. So, yes, a lot of it is optimizing.

The thing is that I believe you mentioned the graphic processor shader was pretty powerful on Sony's side but it's almost untapped power until someone learns how to optimize for it. I just don't see how Sony would be the only one to get this advantage. I don't think the developers for Sony say "Hey, we're at this level with the graphic processor shader right now, but some day we'll get to this level with the same shader". No, I don't buy it. I think they look at that hardware and they know from the start where they can take that piece of hardware, they just have to iron out the directions to get to that location first. I just think that this applies for both companies. I think they have their own set of hardware but they will both try to optimize as much as possible. I would say it's unfaire to put a cap on the 360 and say that things can't be optimized.

And while I do visit mainly sites that hold the 360, because obviously I'm interested in games that I can actually play on my console, I do visit cross platform sites. The reason for that is that I KNOW there are TWO SIDES and that each side will try and beef up their console as much as possible, no matter what. It's the "fanboy" syndrome. And hey, if I spent $600 on a new console to find out some other jerk got something better I'd say "Hey, go to hell, your console is shit!" too. And basicly the people are fighting the battles for the two companies, Sony and Microsoft. Hell, let them do their own fighting, it's inevitable anyways and the more they fight, the better products we get.

Also, don't get me started with Killzone 2 and it's realtime footage. And please don't tell me it was real in-game footage, because we all know, that's a lie!

[Curry]

Interresting point.

As I can tell from you point of view, millions* of people buy xbox360, not because of hype. But because of games right? Oh, plus the xbox live.

On the other hand, gamers do not want to play Metal Gear Solid 4, or a next generation Final Fantasy.
They get a console because of a hype machine.
I am completely missing your point I think. Or more probably, you are completely missing mine. You continuously try to accuse me of saying things I didn't say, or more frequently explicitly said the opposite of. I have already said games should be the deciding factor.

You know as well as I do that the prime reason the PS3 will outsell the 360 is because it is called Playstation. That having that name implies you will be getting Tekken and MGS is just an obvious consequence. To reverse your remark: if MGS4 sucks horse balls Sony has still sold a lot of PS3's based on the hype that they generated on MGS4, a PS3 exclusive. Hence they made lots of money on those boxes only because they're called Playstation, and those buyers didn't give a flying fuck about whether the box was filled with horse shit.

[E2K]

Well, this were good points.

To play against somebody else, is a 1000 times more satisfying than playing with yourself.. ( :D )

What Curry said about the playstation is right.

The playstation1 and 2 did sell over hundreds of millions (err 2 but anyway :P ) because there were people who felt that it had the best games of their generations. I make that "some of the best" because else i'd offend somebody by implying that the rest was shit.

The brand name is now so well respected, that people are expecting for the next playstation to have the best games again. At least they gotten used to it over the past +10 years.

It then is true that, everybody would still buy it, even if there were no good games available (like with the ps2 launch if i'm honest. eventually they got legendary games, but i tell you if wild wild racing, and ssx were 'as good as it gets', i would have sold my ps2 instantly).

As for being more powerfull, or a lot weaker.
This should not matter to anyone :)

example:
person1:"yo check it out! its halo3!!"
person2:"yeah but it is not as powerfull as another console"
person1:"ah then i do not want it!"

People still play halo2, and if you love halo, then you would also buy halo3 if it were xbox1 (but compatible).
"hmm, i can play halo3... but i rather have PD zero, because it has better graphics" < this is impossible.

Then again. Somebody who likes MGS, would not, not buy a PS3 if the xbox was more powerfull.

But we are on the same wavelength now i think.

My last words:
i understand that is is not fair/useless/too early/etc to compare, but you should not start it then.

As you can see, it might get ugly :P

[trj156]

Hence they made lots of money on those boxes only because they're called Playstation, and those buyers didn't give a flying fuck about whether the box was filled with horse shit.
Absolutely. I have noticed, as is my firm belief, that everyone who owns solely Sony video game platforms is either a totally ignorant fanboy or a very casual, im-not-a-geek-cuz-I-play-madden kind of person. I'm not sure if anyone else agrees, but there is also not much of a middle ground - "Yeah, I only play playstation but xbox is really cool too." I've never heard that. People who own game consoles other than just sony branded ones seem to have their head on straight, and as for the rest, i have no idea whats wrong with them. And by the way, i own ps2, gc, xbox, and xbox 360 so i have personal experience with them all. and i can honestly say that for most games, ps2 is easily the lowest quality of them all, and thats a fact, not an opinion.

[Curry]

Just to prove my point Joystiq is running an article on a developer's remark:
In response to what it's like to program and design The Darkness (FPS) for both Xbox 360 and PS3, Chronicles of Riddick developer had this to say: "The PS3 will have a content size [and] CPU advantage... The Xbox360 has a slight GPU advantage... I expect that it will be near impossible to tell Xbox360 and PS3 screenshots apart."
So like I said, PS3 will have a CPU advantage of unknown size, and 360 is better in GPU. We all happy now? ;)

[ARCHA1C]

[quote=Curry]I am completely missing your point I think. Or more probably, you are completely missing mine. You continuously try to accuse me of saying things I didn't say, .............QUOTE]


I've found that because the XBOX 360 is a newer brand name (XBOX) a larger percentage of it's customers take it upon themselves to be more informed about the product they own, or are about to own...

I work and associate with MANY people who are just in the mindset of 'ahhh.. I'm just gonna wait for the PS3...' I ask them 'why?.. There are so many good games out for the 360, and more to come... why wait when you could be playing good shit right now?' And, I have yet to get a really sensible response. Some people still think that the PS3 is set for a SPRING LAUNCH!!! WTF?? What month is it? They just have their blinders on. People are just HUNG UP on the PLAYSTATION name, and it's as simple as that...

The name PLAYSTATION is the new NINTENDO... That's what parents and grandparents (and some ignorant peers) refer to a video game console as... 'Oh, you just gonna go home and play some PLAYSTATION now?'

The hype/brainwash machine is working... the market is saturated with it, and comsumers have fallen in line just as SONY would like

People have convinced themselves that they are really holding out for these 'PS Exclusive Franchises' that they love. Although I can see SOME sense in that, they are still selling themselves short by not even entertaining the POSSIBILITY that another new franchise on another console could be f*#king awesome, and maybe better then their beloved TEKKEN or MGS.

Blind Allegiance is what SONY is banking on to sell its next system... and it will... Just like E2K above... he is holding out for games that we haven't even seen in action yet... because he is, like it not, a fanboy to the bitter end... and Perhaps even worse, he is in denial about it

please stop adding your gamercard, the forum handles that itself just nice ;)

[E2K]

[QUOTE=Curry]he is holding out for games that we haven't even seen in action yet... because he is, like it not, a fanboy to the bitter end... and Perhaps even worse, he is in denial about it

http://card.mygamercard.net/ARCHA1C.jpg (http://profile.mygamercard.net/ARCHA1C)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5894964697549657011&q=metal+gear+solid+4&pl=true
i cannot deny that i am a great fan of the metal gear solid, and final fantasy series.

I would buy a console to play these games. So I am the fanboy.

The funny part is, your 'superiour games console' does not have one game that can compare to the above mentioned titles.

"they are still selling themselves short by not even entertaining the POSSIBILITY that another new franchise on another console could be f*#king awesome, and maybe better then their beloved TEKKEN or MGS."

This was the same with xbox1 vs ps2. People could get PGR2 or GT3.
They chose. I guess that you would be the one to sell yourself short for not playing GT3. ;)
Same for DOA Ultimate vs SC3, Tekken 5 and VF4.
Final Fantasy vs sudoki or whatever.
Damn, these people are so brainwashed!! They rather play the inferior games instead of playing on the xbox!


"But the xbox360 has online! and the ps3 doesnt!!!"

"The PS3 doesn't have inique games like katamari, ico or shadow of the colossus!!!"

"The ps3 graphics are really shit!!!"

Sure oblivion is nice, but i would be wasting my time playing it, when i could finish Final Fantasy VI or IX (see, i dont care about the graphics ;) )
I dont have the time. So my rule is that i now only finish the greatest games. For example shadow of the colossus. I dont have time to screw around in lord of the rings-land, talking to lions and shit.
If Oblivions truly was one of the greatest games of this generation, i'd make time for it.

Also, I have a pc, maybe the most beautiful one ever :) I can play oblivion on this, and i have lesser noise than playing on xbox.
the graphics would be not so nice (radeon 9700 pro), but if its about the games then the graphics would not matter right?

If they do, then we will talk again after E3 wich is next week.

[cybermans]

e2k
One of the reasons I think Oblivion is so great is the absolute freedom. I am not a fan of FF and sony (doh otherwise I would be doing PSic). But that differs from person to person. 9700 isn't enough for oblivion :D )

[E2K]

Friends play it on their mobile radeon 9600's, but maybe the 64MB mobile 9600 is more powerfull than the full 9700, I have to trust you on this I guess.. :+

Everybody wants absolute freedom btw (GTA =wow, etc) , I kind of like it also, but, i already have that in RL.

[Chris]

Everybody wants absolute freedom btw (GTA =wow, etc) , I kind of like it also, but, i already have that in RL.

Did you honestly just compare GTA to Oblivion?
GTA freedom and Oblivion freedom are two completely different animals.
Plus, GTA looks horrible even for a ps2 and it always will. ;)

[king pin677]

i hate the ps3 but love 360 yea

[Curry]

i hate the ps3 but love 360 yea
Why 'hate' the PS3? I'll see what they come up with and I'm open to be pleasantly surprised :) Based on what is known now I think it's going to be an overpriced 360 one year too late pushing an unwanted movie technology down our throats, but we'll see :)

[Emily]

I think it's going to be an overpriced 360 one year too late pushing an unwanted movie technology down our throats, but we'll see :)

Now common Curry, why don't you tell us what you REALLY think :*

[E2K]

i hate the ps3 but love 360 yea


Why 'love' 360? I have seen what they came up with but I'm open to be pleasantly surprised Based on what is known now it is an overheating noisefull breakingdown disc scratching ps3 one year too early keeping you from playing the best titles that Square, Namco, Konami, SCEI, SEGA, etc will be bringing, while denying the best movie technology to ever grace home media from our True High Definition thirsty throats, but we'll see :)

[Studley]

The best movie technology, of which nobody's shipped one unit of yet, and nobody has any idea whether it'll succeed or fail ;)

Maybe if you're lucky, you'll also get a betamax / minidisc add-on for the 360

[E2K]

The best movie technology, of which nobody's shipped one unit of yet, and nobody has any idea whether it'll succeed or fail ;)

Maybe if you're lucky, you'll also get a betamax / minidisc add-on for the 360

omg that is so funny!:D

edit: this below is in response to the "expensive statement" made by one of you above here. curry i think, lets talk euro's now:

Xbox 360 with 20 GB hard drive, and AA battery powered controller, plus low fi HD cable = 399 euro
Xbox 360 Controller cable pack+battery = 15 euro
Xbox 360 wifi adaptor= 79 euro
true HD cable = 30 euro ?


This means that an other console, even if it didn't have blu-ray, could cost 500 Euro,
and still be cheaper than the comparable xbox360.

But you will respond with thinks like:

no this is not true, before the ps3 launch the xbox360 will have built in wifi, the controller will have an included optional cable so you don't have to buy batteries or the charger pack, plus it will have halo 3 for free, plus 3 years free xbox live, and the price will drop to 199 euro..

You should sue square, because the name "final fantasy" should belong to the xbox360 ;)

[squall-san]

Hello all first post and all and BTW great looking site. Now on to my 2 cents.

In the end in comes down to games. Both systems are going to powerful as hell. For myself I choose the 360 based on games, performance but more than anything is the company and how they have treated their customers. I used to love my PS2 back when I first got one. Then around PS2 number 3, I decided sony COULD suck it.

Horrible hardware that breaks at the drop of a dime. Customer supports that makes you feel like your the jerk for buying their product and arrogance that bogels the mind. So I miss out on a couple of the games that are on the PS3... I personally could care less. It's about speaking with your dollars and mine is going to Microsoft.

On a side note for all the hub-bub about how the PS3 is as powerful as God x2, that is the biggest crap ever. Also fav quote from Ken Kutaragi ever is, “The PS3 will instill discipline in our children and adults alike. Everyone will know discipline.” hahahahaa

[Curry]

edit: this below is in response to the "expensive statement" made by one of you above here. curry i think, lets talk euro's now:

Xbox 360 with 20 GB hard drive, and AA battery powered controller, plus low fi HD cable = 399 euro
Xbox 360 Controller cable pack+battery = 15 euro
Xbox 360 wifi adaptor= 79 euro
true HD cable = 30 euro ?

This means that an other console, even if it didn't have blu-ray, could cost 500 Euro, and still be cheaper than the comparable xbox360. I'll take the bait. The 360 was there in November 2005. With all these technologies. The PS3 will be there in November 2006. Or was it Spring 2006? Or end of 2005? Or whenever is the frigging PS3 coming out? Does anyone really expect it outside Japan before 2007? For a price that can even remotely compete with the 360? Do we really think that a company that spent 4 billion on its current console market share will not drop prices if the PS3 is priced even remotely near?
no this is not true, before the ps3 launch the xbox360 will have built in wifi, the controller will have an included optional cable so you don't have to buy batteries or the charger pack, plus it will have halo 3 for free, plus 3 years free xbox live, and the price will drop to 199 euro..Then again, why would they drop a superior machine to 1/3 of the price of their competitor?

[E2K]

Wow, people register to reply to this topic.. ;)

Wifi was invented in 1991.
Lithium-ion cells gave power to my DSC-P1 5 years ago.
DVI, instead of analog VGA has also been around since the last millenium.

Wow, the xbox uses all these technologies, it must be really cutting edge!!


...wait, of the above it only uses wifi.

Btw, I had a wireless controller (9volt battery powered :) ) for my atari 2600 :+ It had an antenna and stuff, really cool.


But when you are listening to the fan noise of your xbox booting up, and then the drive going into warp14, i imagine you thinking: "wow, this must be the edge of technology for years to come".

Because you use words like 'superior' when you compare it to the PS3.
Only a few days away from a true comparison.
And it will be compared by every entertainment magazine, website and television program in the world.
People who read "veronica magazine" will know it.
Someone who picks up a multiformat magazine will know it.
Someone who forgets to put xbox360 before .ign.com will know it.

So I want you to listen to the 4000 rpm fans, and 32 speed dvd drive again, because this will go into history as the last week that it sounded 'powerfull', 'bleeding edge', and 'superior'.

What use is Oblivion, when the rest of the world is going to play it without all the slowdown, framedrops and hiccups?
Some may realise that the xbox360 version of oblivion is be the one that came 1 year too early.

"yeah, but we still have xbox live and halo3 !!"

true dat ;)

[Curry]

Hmm no more bait for me. It was fun when you were still actually responding to arguments instead of just spouting fanboy crap, but now it's quickly becoming boring.

[king pin677]

curry i am completly open as well but i have seen the ps3 specs and i believe it will b in comparison with the 360. basicly the 2 consoles will b the same but microsoft will always rule online. as always though i also believe that microsoft is going for hardcore gamers and sony takes a more general stand (something to make all happy) so it is truly based on opinion of wat u like. me myself am a hardcore gammer so i will stick to my 360 but if u like to swing both ways(i mean between kiddie games and mature games u sickos)(lol) then the ps3 will b right 4 u.

[Chris]

The sad thing is that it doesn't really matter what Sony shows at E3 anymore. No one will believe what they see, whether it be any trailers, videos or demos.

[Emily]

"yeah, but we still have xbox live and halo3 !!"

true dat ;)

I don't like you :(

You're not even addressing the arguments presented. I may not know much about the similarities or differences, but i know that you're spouting pure bullshit.

Lay off, and find a new thread to spread your "love."

[Aift]

People are going to buy the Playstation; because when they were like younger they used to play Playstation, so of couse, with that past knowledge and expectations; they are going to buy another Playstation console. Most gamers, are just casual gamers, they don't know much about specs, so if they see just a slight graphical improvement from the past console; they are just simply amazed. The Playstation will sell, but at the rate now; it won't sell more than the Xbox 360. The Playstation is probably going to be and expensive systems, simply because of the un-needed technology inside of that box.

If things go as predicted, SONY won't do so well. The average middle-class family don't have $450.00 or more to hsimply buy an console with no games. I know it sounds foolish and off topic but, it's true. Xbox 360, is similar too the Playstation 3, even developers say that, the bottom line is, you can buy a similar systems for a lower price. There won't be much of an down-grade. When people see that price, they are going too turn too the XboX 360.

Go Xbox 3608) !

[E2K]

The sales don't mean shit.
The xbox1 was selling faster than the xbox360 for that matter. Check IGN.com.

Like I said before, the media will point out which one is more powerfull.
There will be no denying it anymore.

This will shut the xbox360 "it is the more powerfull graphicly etc" fanboys up for once and for all.

Almost all of you stated that the xbox360 is to have better looking games.
But reality will have you eat your words.

Then my job here will be done ;)

Btw, i never started this thread, or all the other nonsence.

offtopic: Also the hardcore gamer argument is not right.
Sure, the PS2 has singstar, eyetoy, guitar hero, etc.
but it also has R-Type Final, Contra:shattered soldier, Gradius, etc.
King pin 667, i don't think you are really hardcore, because i don't think you ever heared of these games let alone be able to finsh the first level.
Hardcore does not mean that you play oblivion or halo the whole day, it goes further than that. I mentoined these games because there is nothing that you can play on the xbox360 that is as hardcore. backwards compatibility included.

So the true hardcore will think twice before buying xbox, because they would have to do without these games/series.

There really is no argument for xbox being better except for the fact that they have lots of them in every shop available to buy.

[Chris]

I mentoined these games because there is nothing that you can play on the xbox360 that is as hardcore. backwards compatibility included.

I'm sure everyone in this thread has, or has had another console before the xbox 360.

[Aift]

E2K, you are ignorant!

The Playstation 3 & Xbox 360 a nearly equal in the graphics department. The Playstation 3's GPU clocks in at 550Mhz while the Xbox 360's GPU isn't far behind at 500Mhz. Yes, it's an advantage; but not an eye-popping & mind-blowing experience advantage. The Full Auto Devs said, that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference. And don't forget that, a Sony worker, said himself that the Xbox 360 was better than the Playstation 3. The hardware hasn't changed, since that incident. So don't bust out the fanboy talk, and say some stuff like that.

While the Playstation 3 has a slight GPU advantage, the Xbox 360's Graphics Card has 48 Piplelines, farly out-numbering Playstation 3's 28 Pipelines. Although the Playstation 3's Pipelines are stronger than the XBox 360's; the Xbox 360 far out-numbers the PS3 in Pipelines, which means it's graphics card is stronger. And not to mention, the IBM test on the PS3's cells, they are saying it can pump out 133.6 GFLOPS with 7 Cells and the PS3 only uses 6 Cells, the Xbox 360 can pump 115GFLOPS; not to mention that the PS3's OS takes up 19% of the power... so, you know.

Now that we have cleared up that the Xbox 360 has a legit shot a beating the Playstation 3, lets get to games...

Yeah, the Playstation 3 has a lot of past titles from PS1 and PS2; but people buy new consoles to play new games. The Xbox 360 will have 200 game titles by 2007', and respectively, the Playstation 3 will have 60-90. There will be moer Xbox 360 games, respectively. People say that the Xbox 360 won't have any good titles, so there isn't a reason to buy the console... but, I will prove that claim otherwise. Here is a list of great games out now and soon to be:

Gears of War
Huxley
Too Human
Lost Planet
Halo 3(Forerunner)
Phantasy Star Universe
Hitman: Blood Money
Forza Motorsport 2
GTR Racing
Project IM
Mercinaries 2: World in Flames
Madden NFL 2007
Brothers in Arms: Hell’s Highway
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six Vegas
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
F.E.A.R
Prey
Possession
Dark Sector
Project Offset
Grand Theft Auto(Name TBA)
Saint’s Row
Rockstar Games Presents: Table Tennis
Battlefield 2142
Two Worlds
Bioshock
GTR Racing
Battlestations: Midway
Turok(NAME TBA)
Indiana Jones
Resident Evil 5
And those are just the good games announced, there will be many,many more!

Do you still think that the XBox 360, isn't a "hardcore" gamers console?

[E2K]

Aift, it is you who is ignorant, you make a fool out of yourself. This is why:
1) First of all more than half of the games you mention are multi-platform,
2) Take a look at this: * Clocked at 550 MHz
* 1.8 TFLOPS (trillion floating point operations per second)
* Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
* 136 shader operations per clock
* 74.8 billion shader operations per second (100 billion with CPU)
* 33 billion dot products per second (51 billion dot products with CPU)
* 128-bit pixel precision offers rendering of scenes with high dynamic range imagingvs * 315 million transistors total
* 500 MHz parent GPU (90 nm TSMC process, 235 million transistors)
* 300 MHz 10 MB daughter embedded DRAM framebuffer (90 nm process, 50 million transistors)
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines
o 3 groups of 16 arithmetic logic units
o 2 Shader operations per pipe per cycle
o 40 Shader operations per cycle across the entire shader array
o Shader performance: 48 billion (48,000 million) shader operations per second (96 shader operations x 500 MHz)
* 14 Filtered & 16 unfiltered texture samples per clock
* Dot product operations: 24 billion per second or 33.6 billion per second theoretical maximum when summed with CPU operations
* 1 TFLOPS theoretical peak performance of CPU and GPU combined

As for your Full Auto 2 statements,IGN: Are you working to improve the framerate? It was an issue last time.

Gallo: We're building the game with the PS3 in mind, so in addition to spectacular visual effects, as well as the car and environmental damage the game will run at a solid framerate. Of course, our goal is to be at 60fps for the final shipping game.
You are probably one of those people who think that the human eye cannot distinguish more than 24 frames per second.
But like I said, enjoy your XBox while it still lasts.

ps.
Stop posting bullshit, we will talk again after E3.

ps2.
Before you say 'gigaflop' or 'shader', know what you are talking about. And use a reliable source instead of your moderators.

ps3.
...

[TRIGGER M4N]

Aift, you forgot:

Test Drive Unlimited.
Cellfactor.
Chromehounds.
Zoids Ex.
Alan Wake.
Dead Rising.
Over G.
N3 (Ninety-Nine Nights)
Alone in the Dark 5

and many more...

[Cage]

Seems to me that E2K has a thing for numbers (the name says enough;) ). So what if the ps3 has more flops giggles en what else you wonna call it. To me, those numbers meen sh1t. All i'm interrested in is what I see when I startup a game and how much I will enjoy it. Just like my car, I don't need to know what's happening under the hood. All I'm interested in is that it starts when I turn the key and takes me from A to B in a comfortable en pleasant way. Same with games. I like it, not because its xbox or sony, but because I like what I see and experience.
At the moment my xbox is 'tha bomb' for what I seek in entertainment. I hav'nt seen any ingame footage from ps3 and will not for a while (ok, E3 is comming, but they lied to us more than once, so I'll believe it when I see it in stores with my own eyes) so comparing the two at the moment is ridiculous. Start doing it when both machines are in stores but don't try to convince me with some meaningless numbers of how great your ps3 will be whenever it comes out.. At that point I will decide for myself which console I like the most and think is the superior one through my eyes and for my taste. just my 2 cents..

[Emily]

And use a reliable source instead of your moderators.


That's a big insult to the makers of this site. I think it's very inappropriate to speak like that on a site where you seem to post actively. Honestly, get a bit of class.

[Aift]

Hmm...

It really does not matter if the games are multi-platform. Games are games, it does not matter if they are on one system nor the other. There won't be many exclusives this generation, so get used, to seeing alot of multi-platform games. If you are paying attention to Microsoft's actions, in buying companies, I think you will soon see why. That's if you Pay Attention!

If you were actually paying attention to my post, you would have seen, that I was only talking about the power of the GPU. Not all of the other stuff. Man, it seems you probably don't know what implictly speaking is... obviously. And if you really want to start talking about graphics. The Xbox 360's graphics card is stronger than the PS3's graphics card. Also, the XBox 360's card has more pipelines. I think everyone knows, it's a known fact that ATI is better than nVidia, so let's not go in to that subject now... we can make a seperate thread for that.

Let's get in to CPU power. The Xbox 360 has 3 symetrical cores at 3.2Ghz each, which totals out to 9.6Ghz, it almost evens out to my Xbox Super Computers - I made a computer out of salvaged Xbox 1 parts. The Playstation 3 on the hand only has 1 PowerPC-base Core at 3.2Ghz. So, when it comes to CPU power the XBox 360 blows PS3 to straight dust.

Both systems are neck and neck. If you look at the Gears of War in-game footage. You can clearly see, it can compare to MGS4. You can check out the footage, in a commercial on MTV. If you have DVR you can slow it down, to really see it.

[Random Guy]

Here's some numbers for you E2K:
I don't pretend to be an expert on matters technical, but reader Crimson Angelus sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about:

At this year's E3 (or thereabouts) Sony proclaimed that their processor could achieve 200GFLOPS! However, according to IBM's white paper, only 155.5 GFLOPS was actually achieved (Table 4). BUT, IBM's tests used all 8 SPEs. The PS3 will only use 7 SPE's, due to manufacturing yield issues.

The efficiency of the Cell is 75.9% (Table 4), with of a theoretical peak of 201GFLOPs (Figure 5)--running 8 SPEs at 25.12GFLOPS apiece (Table 2). Similarly, the theoretical peak for the PS3's processor will be 176GFLOPS, using 7 SPEs at 25.12GFLOPS apiece. Assuming the same 75.9% effieciency, we could easily interpolate the PS3's Cell to be capable of 133.6GFLOPS.

The take home message is that with the PS3 being cabable of 133.6 GFLOPS and the Xbox 360 being capable of 115.2 GFLOPS, the PS3 is not nearly as far ahead of the Xbox 360 as we were lead to believe. we should expect relatively similar power coming from both consoles, processor power, and ease of programming all considered.

Not to mention that one of the SPE's in the PS3 are reserved for the OS and the bottlenecking of the data transfer between the SPE's and the on board memory. I see the 360 hand in hand with a gaming Revolution taking home this next round at least, if not the whole cake over time.

He's working off this data, which has been around for a while.

So much for "twice the processing power," though I'm interested to learn just how many GFLOPS it takes to enter the fourth dimension. Any tech-minded PS3 fanboys care to argue, or are you still busy making fun of the Wii fanboys?

Source-xbox360fanboy.com (http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2006/04/30/ps3-smoke-and-mirrors-ibm-specs/)

Their Source-ibm.com (http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-cellperf/?ca=drs-#table4)

[Aift]

Resourcful, first post!

+ Rep...lol

[Chris]

We have a similar article here (http://www.xboxic.com/news/781).

[Random Guy]

Sorry Chris, I'm new to Xboxic and didn't see the article.

[Chris]

Sorry Chris, I'm new to Xboxic and didn't see the article.

It's fine. Welcome to the site! :)

[E2K]

Hmm...

The Xbox 360's graphics card is stronger than the PS3's graphics card. Also, the XBox 360's card has more pipelines. I think everyone knows, it's a known fact that ATI is better than nVidia, so let's not go in to that subject now... we can make a seperate thread for that.

Let's get in to CPU power. The Xbox 360 has 3 symetrical cores at 3.2Ghz each, which totals out to 9.6Ghz, it almost evens out to my Xbox Super Computers - I made a computer out of salvaged Xbox 1 parts. The Playstation 3 on the hand only has 1 PowerPC-base Core at 3.2Ghz. So, when it comes to CPU power the XBox 360 blows PS3 to straight dust.

Both systems are neck and neck. If you look at the Gears of War in-game footage. You can clearly see, it can compare to MGS4. You can check out the footage, in a commercial on MTV. If you have DVR you can slow it down, to really see it.

Which does not belong to this list:
'blows straight to dust' , 'ati is better than nvidia', 'more pipelines', Both systems are neck and neck'.


The Xbox 360 has 3 symetrical cores at 3.2Ghz each, which totals out to 9.6Ghz, it almost evens out to my Xbox Super Computers - I made a computer out of salvaged Xbox 1 parts.

:+ :+ :+ :+ _o_ _o_ _o_ :+ :+ :+ :o :o

It gets better every day on this site :D

Well within 24 hrs the pre-e3 conferences will commence, so it's going to get even better.

Btw, don't be angry or something, i think this is an interresting topic, i honestly men that.

Well, Aift, to talk within your technical 'knowledge' ( :D ),
the ps3 has 5 spe's at 3,2 Ghz each, wich totals out to 16 Ghz, it almost evens out to my PlayStation Super Computers - I made a computer out of salvaged PlayStation 1 parts.

No really, please share with us a picture of one of those supercomputers, here is an easy site for webhosting: www.imageshack.com i am really curious now.

Btw2, PGR3 is still a peice of art. The problem is that everybody stands within 10 cm of the samsung screen at the demo pod. I made this mistake also.
But make that 100-150 cm and it will look so much better.
It's not that the xbox does not have excellent graphics, so now you know my opinion.

[E2K]

Btw, i found this on your homepage, this should prove that a few statements made above by xbox fanboys are BS, so read it, even if you are a xbox fanboy:

"Comment by Someone on 2006-05-02 20:46:07 | Reply

Mmm… the guy has some issues with reading comprehension. For one, he doesn’t even seem to be reading what the actual tests were. The initial case that produced the 25.12 GFLOPS in the simulator was simple matrix multiplication. While the simulator reports 25.12, the physical test said 25.01… so that’s about what a single SPE can achieve doing something that it’s inherently good at (25.01 out of 25.6 theoretical max — ~97.7% efficiency).

When running the same test in parallel across 8 SPEs, they got 201 GFLOPS (very close to 25.12 * 8) The “204.8 theoretical” is, btw, the theoretical limit of 8 SPEs, not including the PPE. All these figures are SPE-only… the PPE is not being used for any computation in these tests.

The test where he got the 75.9% efficiency and 155.5 GFLOPS figure was running through a Linpack benchmark. Again, with specifically optimized code. Linpack being inherently meant as a scalable, general, linear algebra package that will do everything from matrix muls to SVDs to eigenspace solutions, etc. it’s not going to be straight up as simple as a fixed-size matrix multiplication, so of course it’s going to be less efficient. Getting 75.9% of your theoretical 204.8 in a parallel implementation is nothing bad, considering an optimized single-SPU version could achieve around 85.9% of its theoretical 25.6 on the same size dataset.

There’s a whole bunch of other tests, all of which are examples of things CELL is expressly good at… none of them are particularly representative of an entire game by any means. But they are at least real figures from actual tests as opposed to theoretical limit numbers thrown around. Which is kind of the big flaw in the IGN post in that he compares his extrapolated figure against the theoretical max of Xenon. I suppose we should expect that kind of technical prowess from the same brilliant minds that told us that 3 * 3.2 GHz = 9 GHz of raw power.
"

[Cage]

For all the 'fanboys'. Again no playable ps3@e3? Don't know how much is true. source : megagames.com(?). This should get the thead going :)

According to a report on the Inquirer.net Sony is facing problems with the yields of its Cell microprocessor, to such an extent that insiders have described the numbers of “good” dies that are coming off the test wafers as horrible.

Industry insiders are not surprised and agree that any chip, built from the ground up, such as Cell is expected to have a shaky start. IBM, Sony’s partner in the Cell, has faced yield issues in the past with its G5 chip but claims to have the expertise to recover. This news however does question Sony’s ability to stage a global launch in November 2006 as promised. Sony may have to revise its strategy if it wants to avoid the embarrassing shortages experienced by its rival Microsoft during its XBox 360 launch late last year.

Test runs on new chips rarely produce excellent results but they can serve as indicators of what you can expect during production runs. These issues may be the reason Sony will not have a playable PS3 available during E3 while they may also be behind complaints by developers that they have not yet seen a working unit.

Sony’ insistence on using proprietary technologies may be one of the reasons it has faced so many delays with PlayStation 3. The biggest issue facing the new console however is not manufacturing; those problems will be sorted out eventually. Sony’s main PS3 headache will be teaching developers how to fully utilize the new architecture.

[Chris]

Sony’s insistence on using proprietary technologies may be one of the reasons it has faced so many delays with PlayStation 3.

:D

This news however does question Sony’s ability to stage a global launch in November 2006 as promised.

:D

[king pin677]

very well said my friend i completly agree with all u have said. very well thought out. here is the part where i pout a smily on the page but....
smily's arent my style instead _o_

[E2K]

Just finished watching the press stuff.

Here a quick summary:
-next generation gaming means 1080P
-Playable demos on e3
-Nintendo revolution is copied, ps3 also 'motion sensitivity'
-Games looked really great. EA basketball looked like shit.
-20GB PS3 is 499 euro. 60GB 599, so really expensive, but that is for you to decide.
-some games looked like a movie, others did not.

Well, i am not too impressed overall. Why? because it is about the games, which i did not play :(
But there should be killer games.

[Random Guy]

Just finished watching the press stuff.

Here a quick summary:
-next generation gaming means 1080P
-Playable demos on e3
-Nintendo revolution is copied, ps3 also 'motion sensitivity'
-Games looked really great. EA basketball looked like shit.
-20GB PS3 is 499 euro. 60GB 599, so really expensive, but that is for you to decide.
-some games looked like a movie, others did not.

Well, i am not too impressed overall. Why? because it is about the games, which i did not play :(
But there should be killer games.

Exactly what happened to Killzone 2...:D

They had some balls to steal from the Wii though. I'll give them that.

Other things stolen from Nintendo (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/OriginalDudeboy/f650af57.jpg)

[Aift]

O-) How.

I watched the Sony Press Confrence and I was not impressed. As we all can tell, Sony's marketing campaign was based clearly on hype. Did you guys see "GT HD", HA, that couldn't compare with Project Gotham Racing 3; which was an Xbox 360 launch title. Some of the stuff looked pretty good, but nothing that the Xbox 360 won't do and we have seen gameplay footage of games that look better like Gears of War and Rainbow Six Vegas. So maybe the numbers don't mean much after-all. Eh?

Oh, and that price. Whoo. $500.00 - $600.00; Sony is crazy. They priced there Premium Pack $200.00 over the Xbox 360. Now Sony must didn't think this over. There is a very similar product on the market, that has a cheaper price point, which one are you going to buy? The cheaper one. Man, Sony, you fucked up AGAIN!

[etalien]

It's pretty simple, there is a product on the market which arrived a year earlier than the PS3, which, in time the PS3 hits the market, also has 2nd gen Next Gen games. So technically it doesnt matter, but since the Xbox 360 has a year of developement advantage it's still a step ahead, also graphically seen. IE, if you look at Gears of War, it's better than ANYTHING currently shown from the PS3, and that's not 'fanboy talk', that's a fact, even for a PS3-boy.

[E2K]

It's pretty simple, there is a product on the market which arrived a year earlier than the PS3, which, in time the PS3 hits the market, also has 2nd gen Next Gen games. So technically it doesnt matter, but since the Xbox 360 has a year of developement advantage it's still a step ahead, also graphically seen. IE, if you look at Gears of War, it's better than ANYTHING currently shown from the PS3, and that's not 'fanboy talk', that's a fact, even for a PS3-boy.

Metal Gear Solid 4 looked better than gears of war.
Ut 2007 also, no surprise :).

The only thing that is different, is that you could play gow.
So there will be fanboys who say that gameplay takes 10 times more processing power than realtime cutscenes, but anyway.

Here are some screens to compare:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/imgs_1.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/imgs_1.html

also read IGN.com because i can imagine that you don't believe it is realtime.

However, the graphical presentation from what i saw of gow, is awesome.

[Alkaline Joker]

Seems like E2K has lost some of the wind in his sails since E3 started. ;)

[Chris]

Was MGS4 playable at E3?

[Aift]

Metal Gear Solid 4 looked better than gears of war.
Ut 2007 also, no surprise :).

The only thing that is different, is that you could play gow.
So there will be fanboys who say that gameplay takes 10 times more processing power than realtime cutscenes, but anyway.

Here are some screens to compare:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/imgs_1.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/imgs_1.html

also read IGN.com because i can imagine that you don't believe it is realtime.

However, the graphical presentation from what i saw of gow, is awesome.

Dude, MGS4 will not look exactly like that. It will look great, but not like that movie was saw. Then, if you want to compare realtime demos, then we should be comparing Metal Gear Solid 4 to Halo 3; which obviously looks better. Gameplay does take more processing power, but not 10 times more. All of the in-game footage I have seen for the PS3 at that confrence can be done on the Xbox 360, or has been done. "GT HD" could not compare to Project Gotham Racing 3. With those hints MS gave us, we might be getting a game from Kojima Productions.

And with this "Wii/Xbox 360 Alliance", PS3 has double the work to do.

[Nino]

Was MGS4 playable at E3?
Just cutscenes I think.

And I thought Epic was going to announce the 360 version of UT2K7 at the E3 but I havent heard from it since that rumor.

[Chris]

Just cutscenes I think.

With Sony, can we really even use MGS4 as an example as what a PS3 game will look like? I mean, it was one of the few games they showed that looked pretty good, and It's sad really, because you can't trust anything they show anymore. Everyone has to question it because no one's quite sure if it's real or not.

[Aift]

Yes, Unreal Tournament 2007 has been annoucned for the Xbox 360. Well, at least is say it's going to be released on Xbox 360 on GameSpy; which is a pretty trustable website. There was no Metal Gear Solid 4 playable demos, there won't be for a while.

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/unreal-tournament-2007/

[E2K]

Here, you can quote me:

E2K: "PGR3 looks miles better than GT HD, aka as GT4 in hi-res".

I really think it.

What makes PGR3 look great? The camera shake, the nice motion blur, and that all combined. I saw it on the demo booth.

Anyway.

But comaring it to GT HD is not fair.

here is something you should know:

PGR3 has:
1000*600 resolution progressive
30 frames per second.

GT HD:
1920*1080 progressive
60 frames per second.

that is 'twice' the resolution, and twice the framerate.
Plus they said it's only GT4 in high res. So not next gen effects applied. GT4 is powered by the GS which had 4 MB VRAM.

So GT will sure have better graphics than what you saw, over time.

For nostalgia:
on e3 2000 they showed this as 'gran turismo 2000'
http://edomekuvat.soneraplaza.fi/gt2000_sony_ps2/15.jpg
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/images/gt2000_06.jpg

then this is what GT3 (gt 2000) looked like when it came out in january 2001
http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/013/013846/imgs_2.html

PGR3 could still look better than GT5 when it comes out, or PGR4 could look better then it, the quality of the developer is more important to graphics than system specs. As you could see in GT4 VS Forza Motorsport.

But don't compare 600p 30fps PGR3 to 1080p 60fps GT HD demo. ;)

here is a link for PGR3 http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/13/pgr3-not-truly-high-definition-if-in-game-screenshots-are-to/

maybe GT HD is upscaled also :0 but IGN said that is was really razorsharp, but anyway.

[Aift]

Great Post.

[Chris]

Great Post.

Yes E2k, finally I can read your post without yelling at my screen.

[Curry]

Are people still actually posting in this thread? Or can I now safely quote E2k as saying the Xbox 360 sucks for not supporting WiFi or next-generation movie playback and laugh at the $500 PS3 not being able to do either of those things?

[E2K]

Are people still actually posting in this thread? Or can I now safely quote E2k as saying the Xbox 360 sucks for not supporting WiFi or next-generation movie playback and laugh at the $500 PS3 not being able to do either of those things?

nice try ;)

i read somewhere that you are 27 yrs old or something. So i will assume that you posted this in 'curry 13 yrs old -mode'.

I however, will respond to this mature, but not now as i have to make some mothers-day visits.

[Curry]

nice try ;)

i read somewhere that you are 27 yrs old or something. So i will assume that you posted this in 'curry 13 yrs old -mode'.
No actually I posted it in 28-year-old mode hoping you'd finally shut up with your Sony fanboy bullshit and start listening to the people that don't care about fanboyism and just analyze facts and figures.

I have no reason to go fanboying for Xbox or Microsoft, I'd just be limiting my business opportunities and jeopardizing our reliability as an independent site. The problem is with idiots like you not accepting that you can actually say something positive about the Xbox 360 without being a fanboy and vice versa for PS3 and Wii.

[E2K]

No actually I posted it in 28-year-old mode hoping you'd finally shut up with your Sony fanboy bullshit and start listening to the people that don't care about fanboyism and just analyze facts and figures.

I have no reason to go fanboying for Xbox or Microsoft, I'd just be limiting my business opportunities and jeopardizing our reliability as an independent site. The problem is with idiots like you not accepting that you can actually say something positive about the Xbox 360 without being a fanboy and vice versa for PS3 and Wii.

wow, really mature choice of words. _o_
When talking to people like this you jeopardise your own reliability. Not as an independent site, but as a person.

[Aift]

E2K, Shut up.

Curry is right, you can't face the fact that there is something good about Xbox 360; and there is a good reason to buy it. You have already jepordized you're reliability, by posting you're Playstation 3 fanboy posts. You cannot accept the fact that Sony has made some kind of mistakes, even dealing with there price.

Get you're shit, straight.

[E2K]

Here the HDMI missing 'disaster' is explained:
http://forum.xboxic.com/showthread.php?p=5385#post5385
O-)

"wifi" soon to follow.

[Curry]

wow, really mature choice of words. _o_
When talking to people like this you jeopardise your own reliability. Not as an independent site, but as a person.The word 'idiot' was finely chosen to conflict with the otherwise diplomatic choice of words to encourage you to change your way of speech. Reading the topic you just started elsewhere, I'd daresay it worked, and I'm looking forward to your topic on the missing WiFi :)

As for this topic, I got quite tired of being called a misinformed brat or whatever, and I'd like you to start taking the crew here seriously. We've proven over and over that this is not a fanboy site, and I like to have any kind of discussion on consoles or whatever as long as the arguments never sink to the level of "huhuh you run an Xbox site j00 fanboiiiiiiii" like you did before. I consider this topic closed since it's overpolluted with bullcrap, but will gladly discuss anything else with you whenever you want :)

[E2K]

okay then, case closed.
But I did say positive things about the 360, where others did not on the ps3.
It was just funny as it was like you were referring to yourself and some crew members.

quote: "idiots like you not accepting that you can actually say something positive about the Xbox 360 without being a fanboy and vice versa for PS3 and Wii"

btw, you are not a 'brat', me being just 20, i should at least have referred to you as 'mister misinformed' or something :P

[Curry]

But I did say positive things about the 360, where others did not on the ps3.
As said before I have not owned a console before my 360. I've been monitoring the next-gen race since early 2005, and I decided to preorder a 360 when it became clear that of the 2 machines with similar hardware specs the PS3 would be arriving terribly late. WHOIS-records prove clearly (http://www.ipcraft.com/whois/xboxic.com) that I registered this domain on December 22nd 2005, well after I got my preordered 360 on the 2nd. I started a 360-site because I thought the world the needed a better news source for Xbox news, not because the world needed another 360-fansite. Xboxic is not a 360-fansite, we didn't get where we are today because we are a fansite. We get appreciation for our no-nonsense approach to Xbox 360 news, and because we dare call MS a bunch of stupid retards when they act that way. MS themselves (and yes, I've met the guys) appreciate us for being honest press. There's a zillion fansites out there, but we actually voice an opinion. And our visitor counts say that our opinion is shared and appreciated by many regular users.
btw, you are not a 'brat', me being just 20, i should at least have referred to you as 'mister misinformed' or something :P
I'll listen to anything that contains 'Curry' of 'Niels' ;)

[E2K]

I'll listen to anything that contains 'Curry' of 'Niels' ;)

Ok then, mr. Curry :P

It wasn't you who started this thread, plus it was my fault for thinking your opinions were presented as facts. i apologise for that.

I understand that it is difficult to be neutral when consoles are concerned.
I saw almost the whole fan community of the site team xbox flaming when the site did a good article on possible xbox live competitors.
I don't know ps3 sites, at least i don't read them (all noobs and shit :+ ) but i can understand that the same would or could happen.

but this is offtopic :)

[Curry]

Don't worry, I never banned you so obviously I still considered your points worthy of discussion ;) And as long as I am admin here, noone will ever be banned for simply voicing their opinion. I appreciate different opinions, that is what actually makes a forum tick. The one thing I demand is that conflicting opinions are supported by solid arguments, otherwise they are merely flamebait :)

[cybermans]

John Carmack about the console wars:
http://www.g4tv.com/pile_player.aspx?video_key=11274

Maybe I am a little Xbox 360 fanboy, but why wouldn't I. The Sony press briefing didnt give me the idea "YEAH BABY". So when Sony have something that is so cool you can't ignore it, hell I will be buying a PS3.

[Alkaline Joker]

I don't see why people get so ficated on owning only one consol. I'm a gamer and I like to dable in just about anything. I've owned just about every type of gaming machine that has come out in the last twelve years to include a PS1 and two PS2's. Sure some things that Sony is showing look great, but so far I have been turned off by the PS3. I don't want to have to pay for a bunch of additions in my consol that I don't want or need. I don't want to get stuck with a bluray player if that is not the only format that is out, what if it goes the way of the Beta (Sony) product. The xbox 360 is perfect for FPS's and online competition, what I'm currently into.

I guess what I'm trying to say is so far Sony has'nt showed me anything yet that has wowed me enough to justify spending $600 on their product. Plus, they don't have any games that I "must have" or wish I had on my 360. I think I'm just going to hold out on getting one until their is a price drop and the HD-DVD race is decided. My two cents, sorry for the soapbox.

[Curry]

Don't count on a price drop before mid 2007, if at all before end of 2007, actually selling the console at 600 at first and then dropping the price within mere months would be even more alienating to their most loyal fanbase.

[Curry]

Omg @ http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060513133719562032&sectionId=1006&releaseId=20060314132311609002:
The 20GB console won't include an HDMI output, which means that it won't be able to deliver high definition pictures. But perhaps more disappointing is that wireless bluetooth controllers won't be supported; instead, gamers will have to make do with retro-style wired-up versions of the increasingly controversial PS3 pad (http://prev.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=2006051312284484046&sectionId=1006). If that is true they're dead.

just heard it's not true... phew

[Rival24]

Omg @ http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060513133719562032&sectionId=1006&releaseId=20060314132311609002:

If that is true they're dead.
And some people thought the Xbox 360 Core was a ripoff ;)

[Nino]

Omg @ http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060513133719562032&sectionId=1006&releaseId=20060314132311609002:
If that is true they're dead.

just heard it's not true... phew
Totally debunked by the offical spec charts from Sony, sorry. :)

[Curry]

Which part of my edit didn't you quite catch? :P

[Ponder416]

the part where you said Ponder416 is the shiz, he missed it could you repeat it!!1lol

[Alkaline Joker]

Don't count on a price drop before mid 2007, if at all before end of 2007, actually selling the console at 600 at first and then dropping the price within mere months would be even more alienating to their most loyal fanbase.


That's fine, b/c I don't think the HD DVD race is going to end anytime soon and I don't feel the need to get the PS3 in the next couple of years.

[Nino]

Which part of my edit didn't you quite catch? :P
Sorry I just had to rub it in.

[Emily]

Sorry I just had to rub it in.

Rub what in, exactly? Did i miss something :X

To keep it..um..on topic. I HEART XBOX360?

[E2K]

silly girl, show us your gamertag. Because you haven't been using xbox life too often lately ;)

[Emily]

silly girl, show us your gamertag. Because you haven't been using xbox life too often lately ;)

i don't have an xbox lol so no gamertag. sadly. buy me one? O+

[Aift]

i don't have an xbox lol so no gamertag. sadly. buy me one? O+

Okay!

I will buy you a brand new Premium Pack Xbox 360. Meet me at 79th Street in Chicago, Illinois. If you do not own an Xbox, why do you post here? No offense given, just wondering why.

O-)

[Chris]

Her lovely boyfriend is a newsposter. ;)

[E2K]

lol!

That's what i thought :D
Well if you 'were' into games, chances are higher that you'd rather be doing singstar or something instead of some lame ass fighting game or whatever.

no really, i knew from the beginning you were 'faking' it.

Well, if you don't know what you are talking about, etc.

But good to have you here.

Maybe you are this very boyfriend, posting as his imaginairy girlfriend?
Sorry if i am beying 'strange', but he does own an xbox ;)

Ah, the internet...O-)

[Emily]

lol!

That's what i thought :D
Well if you 'were' into games, chances are higher that you'd rather be doing singstar or something instead of some lame ass fighting game or whatever.


So wait, why can't i do the cool fighting games? And i AM into games, i'm just poor, is that okay? Lol.

no really, i knew from the beginning you were 'faking' it.

Well, if you don't know what you are talking about, etc.

Faking what exactly? Confused major. And what do i not know what i'm talking about? Again confused lol.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you are this very boyfriend, posting as his imaginairy girlfriend?
Sorry if i am beying 'strange', but he does own an xbox ;)

Ah, the internet...O-)

Lol um okay. We'll pretend you didn't just say that and i'll go back to sleep.

[Emily]

Okay!

I will buy you a brand new Premium Pack Xbox 360. Meet me at 79th Street in Chicago, Illinois. If you do not own an Xbox, why do you post here? No offense given, just wondering why.

O-)

I didn't know it was a requirement that to be into gaming and to post on a forum that i had to own a 360. I'll remember that next time i pretend to care about any such requirement.

And a plane ticket would be close to the price of a 360, so if i were to do that, i'd probably be better off saving the airfare. No offense. ;)

[E2K]

Yo emily.

Sorry for my missasumptions (dont know if that is an english word :) ).
You are realistic, so you must be a woman :D

What i meant was, if you are a female, you'd better be off pleasing ears by singing. Instead of button bashin in some random game. Anyone can press buttons. But games like singstar require certain skill.
Have you ever played it btw?

Btw, the cool fighting games are on other platforms: ie virtua fighter, soul calibur 3, tekken, smash brothers. That's maybe the reason why you don't have an xbox?

DOn't tell me you like/play halo!!


also, don't feel offended, i am just showing interst in other xbox forum members. ;)

[Alkaline Joker]

DOn't tell me you like/play halo!!



What's wrong with liking Halo? Apart from some truly immature people online, this is one of the few games that has held my intrest and has kept me addicted to Live for a substantial amount of time. Ussually I get burned out on a game after a couple of months, but not the case with this game. Don't want to sound like a "fanboy" but that's the way it is ;) . Not to be rude, but have you ever given it a realistic chance?

[Chris]

I just traded in my Halo2 to Game Crazy. I've had it since launch, and all the little yelling, jumping, immature kids kill the fun for me. Too many people also take themselves too seriously on this game too. Guys, it isn't a bloodsport. I just turn my xbox on to have a little fun.

[Ponder416]

I just traded in my Halo2 to Game Crazy. I've had it since launch, and all the little yelling, jumping, immature kids kill the fun for me. Too many people also take themselves too seriously on this game too. Guys, it isn't a bloodsport. I just turn my xbox on to have a little fun.


I couldnt have said it better myself _o_

[Alkaline Joker]

I just traded in my Halo2 to Game Crazy. I've had it since launch, and all the little yelling, jumping, immature kids kill the fun for me. Too many people also take themselves too seriously on this game too. Guys, it isn't a bloodsport. I just turn my xbox on to have a little fun.


Not to mention mods and rampent cheating. They turned what was a great game into a rage fest. I'm much more enthralled with Battlefield 2 on the 360 right now.:)

[E2K]

no, halo2 is great, loL
i was talking 2 the girl
srry 4 the spelling im on psp

[E2K]

no, halo2 is great, loL
i was talking 2 the girl
srry 4 the spelling im on psp

shit, the girl has better things to do than xbox forums... ;(

[Emily]

shit, the girl has better things to do than xbox forums... ;(


I'm NOT a fan of Halo, so you've got that part right.

And i DO have better things to do (though i'm currently at school, mmm xboxic learning).

The GIRL has a name also...i'm pretty sure it's mentioned in my username. Check it out ;)

[Cage]

Just read this on a site. What an arrogance of sony.. tsss..
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe CEO David Reeves says many key PS3 titles will miss the November 17 launch window and will now release in 2007 but he adds that PS3 would sell 5 million units, at its current price, even if it had no games available for it. It even gets worse We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games.
source : http://www.megagames.com/news/html/console/whatissonythinking.shtml

If this is true, then I know what I would do if I was Sony. Take a dump in 5 million shoe boxes and slap the name PS4 on it for a price of $500 and sell it to those 5 million idiots ;)

[Curry]

Well at least they confirm what I've been saying all along: take a metal box, fill it with horse shit and call it Playstation, and it will sell.

[Chris]

It's like an abusive relationship with Sony and their customers. They slap their base around and the customers just don't have the courage to leave. : (

[Emily]

It's like an abusive relationship with Sony and their customers. They slap their base around and the customers just don't have the courage to leave. : (

Sound familiar?

[E2K]

gt3 - forza
tekken/vf/sc - dead or alive
final fantasy - fable
metal gear solid3 - ?
devil may cry - ninja gaiden

the only thing it had was halo and the option to play a lot of games online.

plus the xbox didn't even have games like singstar, eyetoy, guitar hero.

I will not mention shadow of the colossus, or ico, but you didn't play these games so you wouldn't understand anyway.

that is the reason why the ps2 outsold the xbox by 4 to 1.

But I can remember the nintendo and sega fanboys back in 1999/2000:

"take a metal box, fill it with horse shit and call it Playstation, and it will sell."

"It's like an abusive relationship with Sony and their customers. They slap their base around and the customers just don't have the courage to leave. : ("

-etc

oh wait, check all those websites from 2000 and so on

"the dreamcast has already sold million by the time the ps2 will release, plus, it has online gaming, plus it already has a very strong games catalogue. Sony may have won with ps1, but they will lose with ps2!! it will cost fucking 1149 guilders!!! that is twice as much as a dreamcast with 2 games!!!!"

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

In the end, i laughed my ass off. I saved the world in mgs3, sacrificed myself for mono in sotc, do i need to go on?

It will be the same again with ps3. Only a matter of time.
This is the word of hundreds of millions of people against... what? your forum? the xbox community? give me a break _o_

[TRIGGER M4N]

gt3 - forza
tekken/vf/sc - dead or alive
final fantasy - fable
metal gear solid3 - ?
devil may cry - ninja gaiden


That could be filled with Splinter Cell.

.
plus the xbox didn't even have games like singstar, eyetoy, guitar hero.


And..?

[Cage]

the only thing it had was halo and the option to play a lot of games online.
The reason why I bought my xbox instead of a PS2 was because it was and still is more powerfull. I love great graphics and PS2 did not have that special something.. had nothing to do with halo or online gaming.

plus the xbox didn't even have games like singstar, eyetoy, guitar hero.
Thank God for that. They were all rubbish. Plus sony lost the edge on that genre. Wii will kick it's arse when it comes to family entertainment.

It will be the same again with ps3. Only a matter of time.
This is the word of hundreds of millions of people against... what? your forum? the xbox community? give me a break _o_
Lady and gentlemen, we have a psychic amongst our midst. How can you say a thing like that. Sony does'nt even have a working console and as you could've read in my previous post, allot of games are'nt even there on launch or the holiday season for that matter. Only the 5 million 'fanboys' mentioned will buy this year (i'm sure yours is allready pre-orderd) and a couple of people who like the games that are for sale. By the time the PS3 can start 'the next-gen console war' the 360 will have a major fanbase and a big community. No way is it going to end like the dreamcast. Maybe, if sony plays it's cards right, it can take the lead in 2 years from now, but MS will be breathing up it's arse.

PS: What's with all the linebreaks in your post. Is your Enter key stuck? 8)7

[Aift]

gt3 - forza
tekken/vf/sc - dead or alive
final fantasy - fable
metal gear solid3 - ?
devil may cry - ninja gaiden

the only thing it had was halo and the option to play a lot of games online.

plus the xbox didn't even have games like singstar, eyetoy, guitar hero.

I will not mention shadow of the colossus, or ico, but you didn't play these games so you wouldn't understand anyway.

that is the reason why the ps2 outsold the xbox by 4 to 1.

But I can remember the nintendo and sega fanboys back in 1999/2000:

"take a metal box, fill it with horse shit and call it Playstation, and it will sell."

"It's like an abusive relationship with Sony and their customers. They slap their base around and the customers just don't have the courage to leave. : ("

-etc

oh wait, check all those websites from 2000 and so on

"the dreamcast has already sold million by the time the ps2 will release, plus, it has online gaming, plus it already has a very strong games catalogue. Sony may have won with ps1, but they will lose with ps2!! it will cost fucking 1149 guilders!!! that is twice as much as a dreamcast with 2 games!!!!"

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

In the end, i laughed my ass off. I saved the world in mgs3, sacrificed myself for mono in sotc, do i need to go on?

It will be the same again with ps3. Only a matter of time.
This is the word of hundreds of millions of people against... what? your forum? the xbox community? give me a break _o_

First...

Devil May Cry 4, will be released on the Xbox 360. I made a thread about it in "Xbox 360 Games". So if you want to put DMC up there, you need to put DMC next to DMC. Metal Gear Solid goes head to head with, Splinter Cell: Double Agent. You are talking like the Xbox 360 has no titles, the Xbox 360 will have 200 games by Febuarary 2007, putting it far ahead of the Playstation 3. Also, the Xbox 360 will be recieving a HDMI cords; so that disscussion about PS3 having HDMI and 360 doesn't can finally end.

The Xbox 360 has the "Xbox Vision" coming out. It's ideally supposed to be better than the EyeToy. But, I wouldn't take my chances on that because the EyeToy has a better variety of games to choose from. Dude, SingStar was just shown at E3 this year, and Xbox 360 has the Marketplace where you can download, music.

DreamCast is nothing like the Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 is the next generation. Sony didn't have a large price tag on the PS1/2. But the do on the PS3, which gives MS the upper-hand, and seeing on how they sell out so quick, there is a large demand for 360's.

[E2K]

like i said, in holland the ps2 was 1149 guilders, which translates to more than 500 dollars.
The dreamcast was in comparison 250 dollars at that time.

The xbox 360 will have great games, but like i explained, the xbox1 had also, still a lot of people thought the ps2 had better games. Plus, in holland, the PS2 has always been more expensive than the xbox. Needless to say that it still outsold the xbox every day. These are facts.

When the playstation2 launched, the dreamcast was better in every genre, let me explain:

tekken tag < soul calibur
ridge racer 5 < Metropolis street racer
orphen < skies of arcadia
??? < shen mue
plus, at the time these games had better graphics than the PS2, because developers had more than 1 year extra time on the dreamcast.

Guys and woman (Emily ;)), this is history.

I forgot to say that the dreamcast had online gaming 3 years before the ps2 or even the xbox.

So it is a miracle that the ps2 began to outsell the dreamcast the very moment it launched, right?
It took a few weeks for the ps2 to have more total sales than the dreamcast, and the rest is history.
The games got better over time, so i bet on the right horse again.
(i could have gotten a saturn or n64 instead of a ps1)

It would be nice however, for the xbox to get DMC4, then it's going to be really in your face that the DMC was allways better than Ninja gaiden _o_

[Cage]

like i said, in holland the ps2 was 1149 guilders, which translates to more than 500 dollars.
The dreamcast was in comparison 250 dollars at that time.

The xbox 360 will have great games, but like i explained, the xbox1 had also, still a lot of people thought the ps2 had better games. Plus, in holland, the PS2 has always been more expensive than the xbox. Needless to say that it still outsold the xbox every day. These are facts.

When the playstation2 launched, the dreamcast was better in every genre, let me explain:

tekken tag < soul calibur
ridge racer 5 < Metropolis street racer
orphen < skies of arcadia
??? < shen mue
plus, at the time these games had better graphics than the PS2, because developers had more than 1 year extra time on the dreamcast.

Guys and woman (Emily ;)), this is history.

I forgot to say that the dreamcast had online gaming 3 years before the ps2 or even the xbox.

So it is a miracle that the ps2 began to outsell the dreamcast the very moment it launched, right?
It took a few weeks for the ps2 to have more total sales than the dreamcast, and the rest is history.
The games got better over time, so i bet on the right horse again.
(i could have gotten a saturn or n64 instead of a ps1)

It would be nice however, for the xbox to get DMC4, then it's going to be really in your face that the DMC was allways better than Ninja gaiden _o_
Man, you are so full of it! But you have a point with one thing you've said. It's history.. In your world history repeats itself, but thats a load of crap. Pardon my french. If history would repeat itself, like you said, then nintendo would rule the gaming world and Sega would still be second best.
You simply cannot compare the 360 with the dreamcast. I myself have never seen alot of the dreamcast. It was'nt a big marketing machine. Microsoft however IS a big marketing machine and has more money then some country's on this planet. The 360 will never disappear, Bill will not let that happen. Believe you me..

[E2K]

I never stated that the 360 is like the dreamcast.

I reported that as a playstation competitor, there were, and will be similarities to the dreamcast.

-'much' cheaper
-supposed better games than when playstation launches
-has step forward in online gaming
-more games available
-larger install base
-developer advantage due to more time with system/ easier programming
-2nd gen games to look better than playstation 1st gen
-cheaper to develop for
-easier to port games to pc and visa versa

now say again that DC and xbox do not have similarities ;)

Also, you might not know this, due to some fans common lack of (gaming) knowledge, but remember mr. xbox 360 peter moore?

http://dreamcast.ign.com/articles/089/089436p1.html

here, another thing they have in common.

Not to brag on about myself, but i post more facts than a months of newsposts combined :+
that was sarcastic btw.

You see, i give you facts and speculation based on this.
Others only give you speculation based on personal preference.

One last thing, i seriously hope not to play FF for the rest of my life.
I hope in a few years time, i have better thing to do than play games. Whatever the platform.
Me being 20 yrs old, i have a few years advantage over the rest, so do not question my opinion 8)

[Cage]

now say again that DC and xbox do not have similarities ;)
Yes they have similarities and i've never said that they did'nt. You're comparing the two in all your statements, telling how the dreamcast failed and the 360 will too. An opel and a ferrari have similarities too (4 wheels, steering wheel etc.) but you can't compare the two. Get my point?

Also, you might not know this, due to some fans common lack of (gaming) knowledge, but remember mr. xbox 360 peter moore?

http://dreamcast.ign.com/articles/089/089436p1.html
Ofcourse I know Mr Moore was Mr Dreamcast. I think everyone knows that. Old news my friend.
Not to brag on about myself, but i post more facts than a months of newsposts combined :+
that was sarcastic btw.
Not to diss you but all your news and facts are sony related and comes from sony sites or sony fanboy sites. Thats not what I call facts and news for an Xbox site.

You see, i give you facts and speculation based on this.
Others only give you speculation based on personal preference.

One last thing, i seriously hope not to play FF for the rest of my life.
I hope in a few years time, i have better thing to do than play games. Whatever the platform.
Me being 20 yrs old, i have a few years advantage over the rest, so do not question my opinion 8)
No offence, but I was playing games (casually) when you were still in diapers and still play just to have some fun. And besides, all your facts and speculations are still your personal preference. Allways dissing all that's not holy (read sony) :P

Just for you a site with 360 and dreamcasts similarities.
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145154
Don't forget to look at page 2 though O-)

[E2K]

check my other posts, i am also positive about 360 and what it is doing to the games industry _o_

[Cage]

check my other posts, i am also positive about 360 and what it is doing to the games industry _o_
Indeed. Your last couple of posts are not so sony minded as they were in the beginning. Starting to believe us? :+ Now post some MS fanboy stuff allready!:P

[E2K]

Okay, here we go:

The fact that the xbox controller uses AA batteries instead of lithium-ion cells is a really big plus!!
You can buy new ones, so you never have to charge them!!
:)

[Chris]

I really liked that card thing that PS3 showed at their conference.

[mace1337]

Okay, here we go:

The fact that the xbox controller uses AA batteries instead of lithium-ion cells is a really big plus!!
You can buy new ones, so you never have to charge them!!
:)

But the plus side of the ps3 controller is that if you throw it out of the window, it will come back because of the boomerang shape!! 8)

[Chris]

But the plus side of the ps3 controller is that if you throw it out of the window, it will come back because of the boomerang shape!! 8)

Not anymore.
http://files.xboxic.com/ps3/thumbs/controllerupblack-small.jpg

[mace1337]

Not anymore.
http://files.xboxic.com/ps3/thumbs/controllerupblack-small.jpg

Dammit, i really need to stay current 8)7

[Aift]

I really liked that card thing that PS3 showed at their conference.

Yet idea stolen by Sony! I think it's called the Playstation Card, but man, Sony is on a rolls of copyright infringements. Woot Woot! Maybe Sony can do it some more. Let's go Sony! Break one more copyright!

[Curry]

At least that controller still looks like something Sony has copyrights on. Guess they didn't want to risk infringing Australian Aboriginee's copyrights after all.

[Chris]

Looky here. (http://gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=3388)
Summary:

Translated by IGN, the latest issue of Japanese mag Ge-Maga polled Japan's development community on issues regarding Sony's PlayStation 3.

Full Text:

The results are as follows:

* 90.29 percent of the developers feel the PS3 is too pricey.

* 56.31 percent disagree with Sony's choice of releasing two SKU's.

* 55.82 percent feel that the PS3 will not sell with the current lineup of launch titles.

* 32.52 percent have they've become less confident in the platform as a whole.

* 62.13 percent feel the system will not reach its 6,000,000 sales goal by March of next year.

* And a dismal 3.39 percent said they were relieved by Sony's announcements at E3 2K6.