[Mad Tracks] The more the merrier?

[DenisDenis]

Not that I listen to the community usualy, but we had a discussion on number of Live players at the "Bonobo" during lunch ("Bonobo" beeing our lunch place - ask Curry).

What is your though on Live 4 players VS 8 players?
I see good and bad both ways and wanted to have your point of view (yes, even you Ylag!).

Cheers,

[Curry]

("Bonobo" beeing our lunch place - ask Curry).
Good salads :Y)
What is your though on Live 4 players VS 8 players?
I see good and bad both ways and wanted to have your point of view (yes, even you Ylag!).
Given current broadband penetration and the relatively low network stability requirements of racing games, I would see no reason to settle for anything less than 8.

[htimsda]

I agree; it should be 8. :)

In what ways is it better to have only 4?

If the max is 8, and some people like to have only 4, the host can choose to limit the number of players to 4.

[Studley]

Does PC Mad Tracks only allow 4? I think all the races in the demo are 4.

If the code for 8 players already exists, stick with it, but I wouldn't fancy the game being pushed back any further because the game needs to be re-written for 8 players. 4 is plenty for a game of this nature, some of the mini-games might be a bit crowded with 8.

[Studley]

If the max is 8, and some people like to have only 4, the host can choose to limit the number of players to 4.

Good point. And it would be nice when choosing tracks, if it shows you what the recommended number of players is (e.g. foosball might be 4-6).

[TRIGGER M4N]

8 players, don't even think about doing less.

[Zerodisorder]

I would say 8 players is good if the servers don't get laggy, but if so than the host can choose however many players there are.

[Paul Tancred]

I think it should be 8+.

Also, I think you should run with the suggestion of letting the host pick the number of people in the game.

Also, maybe an option so that if it's a team game, then it must be equal teams (i.e equal number of people).

[Sir SpankalotUK]

I dont understand all this setting of maximums, presume your not stressing the hardware too badly, if I had 2mb fat pipe why cant I host a room with 32 peeps in it? I understand there might be other factors involved, but why such a low number?

Just include a help hint explaining upload to number of players ratio in the option so people can see the deciding factor.

[Zerodisorder]

lol if you think the game can have 32 cars going at once, talk him into it :P

[Curry]

I dont understand all this setting of maximums, presume your not stressing the hardware too badly, if I had 2mb fat pipe why cant I host a room with 32 peeps in it? I understand there might be other factors involved, but why such a low number?

Just include a help hint explaining upload to number of players ratio in the option so people can see the deciding factor.
The game is inherently limited to 8 players through all the level design. Shouldn't tinker with that.

[Sir SpankalotUK]

The game is inherently limited to 8 players through all the level design. Shouldn't tinker with that.

surely the current code is limited to 4 player split screen, just wondering where 8 came from?

[Curry]

You can always introduce computer players up to a total of 8 TOTAL players.

[xboxguy]

i say up to eight depending on the gametype sounds good.

[Nekro Neko]

8, you can always choose to play in smaller rooms. No AI cars online unless chosen by the host.

[Scarbir]

I'd say 8 too. Move over Mario Kart DS online, this is Mad Tracks. Also, there is no reason for this game to get under the number of maximum players of PGR3. I didn't really experience lag in that game anyway, so why should 8 be a problem?

[Chris]

It seems like you can never overload a map. Just look at lockout on halo 2 and how many times that map is filled with 16 people. Being cramped is part of the fun, especially in a car party game like this. Everyone always sliding into eachother like on the ice soccer minigame. You have to define the fine line between annoying, and pleasently packed in.


I say, go for 8 players.

[Nekro Neko]

8 Player Demolition Derby style gaming is already getting my palms sweaty.

[DenisDenis]

I would say 8 players is good if the servers don't get laggy, but if so than the host can choose however many players there are.

There is no host.
Consider the system closer to peer to peer.
D.

[DenisDenis]

Also, maybe an option so that if it's a team game, then it must be equal teams (i.e equal number of people).

No way!
I want to be able to play 1 VS 3 on a foosball game.
Just to show you what shame tastes like >:)

[DenisDenis]

I'd say 8 too. Move over Mario Kart DS online, this is Mad Tracks. Also, there is no reason for this game to get under the number of maximum players of PGR3. I didn't really experience lag in that game anyway, so why should 8 be a problem?

Reality check.
Bizarre had ten$ of million dollars and a 4.3Gb space limit.
We have neither (by far) 8)

(not mentioning Nintendo, of course!!)

[DenisDenis]

Ok, that's what I thought.
4 players is going to be a hard sell to you guys.

The fact is that we have to fit into pretty tight requirements from M$.
One of them is frame rate and network rate.
If you don't fit into that requirement, you're out.
Easy, no?
For the time beeing, we know we make the cut with 4.
6 doesn't make sense imho.
I favor 8 players, even if yesterday evening I had troubles filling a 4 player room in UNO (now that I think of it, I NEVER filled an 8 player room in PGR3 and I played this game Live a lot).
I also agree that on some of our gameplays, 8 would be a crowd (ie: pool).
Remember challenges are very short (1 to 3 mn) so you don't want to be hanging in the waiting room for more than that.

I'll keep you posted as we are still waiting for news on low level programing either tomorrow or monday.
Cheers,

[YLA G]

(yes, even you Ylag!).



lol.. have i been a hard ass? it was for you own good ;) well.. hmm..

more souls = bigger party = more satisfaction?

think that teams 4 vs 4 would be great also.. but if it is indeed to crowd it would be to hard

how is it going? is it easier or harder then you thought it would be?

ps: are you using XNA tools for it? what do you think as a devloper that now everyone can create stuff?

[Scarbir]

Some good arguments you have Denis, but I played enough PGR3 and CoD2 to state that it's all too easy to fill up an 8-player game.

[The_Glovner]

Used to be a lot eaiser to fill up to 8 people on PGR before they started fucking about with the ranking/matchmaking, but I have no trouble filling a playtime room, but am I to understand this will not be an option? Shame on you, I like to play God and have the ability to kick out the whiney 12 yr olds. (after teaching them how to swear in Scottish for their next day at school).

Oh and by the way, 8 all the way except on smaller mini-games where you can feel free to limit the numbers to the best amount suited for the game.

And if I can't hear the abuse or be heard as the abuser I will also be dissapointed.

It's all about the banter!

And off-topic I am still a Junior Member but working hard to get my Adult Member

[htimsda]

I favor 8 players, even if yesterday evening I had troubles filling a 4 player room in UNO (now that I think of it, I NEVER filled an 8 player room in PGR3 and I played this game Live a lot).


Some thoughts:

Which do you think will have more online players, UNO or MT?

I don't know about PGR3, I don't have it. But if there are many differnt game types and modes and maps, you may fragment your players and end up with fewer people playing together in each type of game.

Is 8 player more fun than 4 player? More fun should equal more game sales.

As you have stated, in January there should be twice as many 360 owners as there are right now.

[kidkit]

Sometimes the number on the box is more important than the number you actually get to try.... Sad but true :)

[Nekro Neko]

Just a thought, but there should be a Tornament, Championship mode. I would like that a lot.

[Zerodisorder]

And off-topic I am still a Junior Member but working hard to get my Adult Member
You are a senior member when you hit 100 posts, good luck, you don't have to rush or anything though cause everyone still likes ya whether your a junior or a senior :D

[TRIGGER M4N]

Up to 8 players, and have non-ranking, and a ranking mode.

[DenisDenis]

Up to 8 players, and have non-ranking, and a ranking mode.

These modes are required by Microsoft.
You'll get standard and Ranked Live games.
8)

Sometimes the number on the box is more important than the number you actually get to try.... Sad but true :)

Kidkit, are you working in the video game business?
What you say is sooooo true.
Publishers make us come with silly options or features sometimes just to put a catch phrase on the box.

All in all, I'd rather have a well-oiled, well-tested, bombproof 4 player Live than go for the number on the box.

What do you think, y'all?

[The_Glovner]

You are a senior member when you hit 100 posts, good luck, you don't have to rush or anything though cause everyone still likes ya whether your a junior or a senior :D


Aww, thanks I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now. Which is a nice change to the burning ball of hate and resentment I usually feel.>:)

[TRIGGER M4N]

These modes are required by Microsoft.
You'll get standard and Ranked Live games.?
DOA4 has no such thing, only ranked.

[kidkit]

Nope, I suppose that comment came mostly from a personal experience perspective, I am disappointed at times by games that I felt could have included more players, even if I might never have had the chance to try it out.

I have to say that 8 players HAS to be your goal, but if you do go down the road of 4 players at least allow 4 additional AI players, OPTIONAL of course.

[DenisDenis]

DOA4 has no such thing, only ranked.

Correct.
That's part of life's unfairness.
Load Inc. has substancialy less leverage than TECMO it seems...
They don't have to follow the rules as much as we do.
:'(

Cheers,

[Chris]

That sucks.

[Paul Tancred]

Which do you think will have more online players, UNO or MT?

MT :+

Correct.
That's part of life's unfairness.
Load Inc. has substancialy less leverage than TECMO it seems...
They don't have to follow the rules as much as we do.
:'(

Cheers,
That's really unfair. It should be the same rules for everyone.

[Curry]

Kidkit, are you working in the video game business?
What you say is sooooo true.
Publishers make us come with silly options or features sometimes just to put a catch phrase on the box.
That holds true in any industry, but software in general foremost. I remember having a perfectly optimized network protocol running in internet software, tuned to run fine even on 56k6 modems. It was 2001, I was working in a dotcom, and idiots @ management forced us to change the protocol to XML because that was the buzzword of the day.

For the uninitiated: XML is a great and wonderful invention for writing portable data that is to be read by many different sources. For a proprietary network protocol that will never see third party usage, XML is a bloated and excessively inefficient way of storing data that you could also do in 10% of the space with an optimized binary protocol. In the end we had to realtime zip the XML during network transfer to keep performance up, thus defeating the whole point of using XML in the first place, and losing a lot of CPU power on creating the XML and compressing it. But management did have their XML buzzword during board meetings :z

Needless the say, the company went bankrupt ;)
All in all, I'd rather have a well-oiled, well-tested, bombproof 4 player Live than go for the number on the box.

What do you think, y'all?
As a developer, I really see no reason whatsoever to limit multiplayer to 4 instead of 8. Please surprise me though ;)

[DM2]

What ever you make it (I'd prefere 8 but 4 may be ok for the style of game it is) make sure the lobby implementation is good, with named voice chat an easy kick system for the host and auto ready up, it seems a lot of recent games have gone backwards in respect to the lobby implementation.

Some sort of friendly scoring system that could be reset by the host would be nice so we can see who the loser is after a hours gaming :)

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere but I am just back from holiday and work is interfering with my forum comitments :)