Achievements - what makes you tick??

[DenisDenis]

I have a question for the best XBLA community around (yes, even you YLA G).

We just finished implementing our 12 achievements and I'm wondering.
What are you looking for in achievements?

Additional gameplay?
Different gameplay?
An easy way to gain points for your GT?
Harde challenges?
Easier challenges?
Something else maybe??

Have a good one.

offtopic:
Zidane President !!!

[Cage]

I like it if they're well ballanced. Not like EA games where you get 200 for taking the disk out of the box and stuff like that. Or like Perfect dark where only 20 are achieved after completing the game and the rest is online stuff.
So, well ballanced and some real challange to get it is also good.

offtopic:
Sunday, blue vs blue, Azzurri vs Le Bleus Hope Italy wins (just kidding)..

[TRIGGER M4N]

I'm not a huge fan of achievements, but I do like the ones that make you do things you wouldn't normally.

Eg: Complete a race backwards or...
Kill 1,00 zombies with bare knuckles (From Dead Rising.)

[Nino]

Different gameplay! Achievements are a great way to stimulate other types of gameplay and exploration. Take the easter egg achievement in Marble Blast for instance, that one's great!

[Curry]

Originally Posted by DenisDenis

Additional gameplay?

Definitely. I love it when achievements make me play the game again after finishing it. I finished Half-Life 2 on normal, and never bothered on hard. I completed CoD2 on Veteran because I wanted the bitching achievements. Same price, more fun.

Different gameplay?

Definitely. Achievements like Tomb Raiders Time Trials and Awards are cool, because they make you look differently at the game and in the case of the Trials even train.

An easy way to gain points for your GT?

Up to a certain extent. No achievement should be impossible or nearly impossible (black belt grandmaster in MSR springs to mind), nor should it be based on 'best of the world' crap or something like that (see GRAW). Everyone who trains (for a long long time perhaps) should be able to get all achievements. But someone who doesn't train for hours should also get points. DOA4 fills the "best of the world" crap by awarding achievements for grades. There's 1000 people or so with SS rating, so they all got the highest leaderboard achievement. But there's also 1000's of S guys, 1000's of A etc.

Harde challenges?

See my CoD2 point a bit above

Easier challenges?

See my "balance" point

Something else maybe??

The purpose of achievements should be that the gamer actually has a sense of achievement after getting it. That means no tedious bullcrap that's merely a matter of playing ridiculous hours (8 hours straight online in GRAW... comeon I have a job guys) or repeating the same action over and over (1000 sharks in Feeding Frenzy... gimme a break). Achievements that just state "I have no life" have no use. I think Tomb Raider has good achievements in general, focusing both on completing the game, giving points for recompleting on hard, and setting totally different kinds of challenges with the awards and the time trials. Bad example would be most EA Sports games, where playing for 5 hours grants you a free 1000GP without the faintest sense of achievement.

offtopic:
Zidane President !!!

Stfu

[Rival24]

(1000 sharks in Feeding Frenzy... gimme a break). Achievements that just state "I have no life" have no use

THANKS!

[Curry]

Originally Posted by Rival24

THANKS!

I was thinking of you when I wrote that

[kidkit]

I think the pacisfism (sp?) achievement (survive 60 seconds without firing a shot) on geometry wars ingenious for a few reasons...

- Some people would instinctively try to do it without knowing about it
- It helps you get better at the game
- It's fun, and you want to try it again even after you get the achievement.

[Studley]

They should be a good spread, so that you really have to be a pretty obsessive fan of the game to get all the points. So for instance, spread the points out across the different game modes, which is a good way of getting people to try the areas of the game that they wouldn't normally do.

One example of how to take it too far though is Football Manager 2006 - there's some pretty unique achievements there, but the points aren't worth the amount of effort - "Win 5 cup competitions: 5pts" could take you about 100 hours of gameplay...

On a personal note - a few 360 games have had "Secret Achievements", where it doesn't actually display what the achievement is until you get it. (I think Condemned did this?) I think they're a really good idea, I know there are gamerpoint lists online everywhere but it'd be nice if you didn't know what would get you points, it adds to the sense of achievement rather than simply "I need to get another 100 sniper kills before I get those points".

[Curry]

A lot of games have secrets, indeed Condemned but also DOA4 and Kameo for example And yes, they're a good idea.

[HHS Pilot]

Like others have said, I like acheivements that are well balanced. A couple points for basic stuff, a few for completing the game, but those should not pass 50 gamer points total. and the other 150 should be either hard or innovative. Like someone said, race a whole track while driving backwards would be cool.

[StUnNeR 2K]

i would like to see achievements not being to hard but also not to easy. I would like achievements that make you play the game longer. for example: the achievements in Oblivion: they are easy to obtain but they take u a long time to gain them and they make u see the games entirety

[DenisDenis]

I hear you guys.
There's one thing I need to keep in mind while balancing / adding gameplay / rewarding players / adding hidden achievements: XBLA games are only allowed 12 of them for a total of 200 pts.
Compared to a AAA game, we have less possibilities.
I do agree on what you guys are saying and I think what we added in 'Mad Tracks' will do the trick.
I'll see if I can post the list here soon...

offtopic:
Did anyone had fun playing King Kong - or am I the only one getting very bored with it???

[Curry]

offtopic:
I'm waiting for King Kong to drop below $20 before I spend money on it

[DenisDenis]

Originally Posted by Curry

offtopic:
I'm waiting for King Kong to drop below $20 before I spend money on it

offtopic:
Buy 'Mad Tracks' on XBLA first, please!

[Nino]

Originally Posted by DenisDenis

offtopic:
Buy 'Mad Tracks' on XBLA first, please!

You're soo subtle Denis

[Curry]

Originally Posted by DenisDenis

offtopic:
Buy 'Mad Tracks' on XBLA first, please!

Beg me! Beg me!

Ofcourse I'll buy it

[Ponder416]

Originally Posted by TRIGGER M4N

I'm not a huge fan of achievements, but I do like the ones that make you do things you wouldn't normally.

Eg: Complete a race backwards or...
Kill 1,00 zombies with bare knuckles (From Dead Rising.)

^ what he said

[Chris]

Achievements are good. Balance the easy with the difficult and leave out the pointless and stupid ones like on GRAW with the damn leaderboards.

offtopic:
i like cheeseburgers from Mcdonald's

[kobejonez]

I think landmark acheivements are important(tho the 1000 sharks on FF is ridculous) and I think used well they all add to the one more go factor.
I think achievment teirs(easy,med,hard) are imortant, a lot of games go from the sublime to the ridiculous but this is tricky as everyone has different abilities. And also even and fair rewards to many games give to small reward for an achievement that took forever and as mentioned other games give huge rewards for 10 minutes gaming.
Kbj

[Curry]

I think my most important take on the achievements bit is that all should be "achievable", given enough training, rather than spent time. If you're good in a game and become better in it, you should be able to get 100%. Some landmark achievements help (X headshots in an FPS, like GRAW and PDZ), but the huge ones (1000 sharks) are imho just pointless. I might still get the shark achievement though if I'm really bored often enough

[Studley]

Originally Posted by DenisDenis

offtopic:
Zidane President !!!

Bit violent for a president

[Curry]

LOL you're making friends tonight Stud

[DenisDenis]

Originally Posted by Studley

Bit violent for a president

offtopic:
Agreed, a little too violent.
Damn it! We were so close!

Now back to work.

[DM2]

A mixture of achievments is what is needed, some easy to show a part finished game, some harder and requiring skill to achieve, not just time. (BTW the 1000 sharks in Feeding Frenzy is supposed to be quite easy to get if you just stick on the a shark level and get eaten by a oyster when ever you are close to finishing that level.)

Of course something like the Viral achievment that Gastronaut have come up with in small arms sounds excelent. Having four developers 'infecting' others who go on to infect more is a great idea.